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SEGA It's no longer thinking, but the occasional topic still pops up. Besides, the Dreamcast doesn't really feel old enough to be called Retro.

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Old August 25th, 2003, 11:04 PM   #1
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How would you run Sega?03-04 FY

I'll keep my post and my reply seperate.

This thread is simple - post how you would operate Sega over the next fiscal year. What would be your main goals? Would you consider entering the hardware wars again? Would you change their software focus? Would you sell off any dev teams? Would you resurrect old series, or focus on the creation of new ones?

Post any and all ideas you'd have here. Could be an interesting read.
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Old August 25th, 2003, 11:20 PM   #2
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There are certain things the fans are clamoring for. I'd mainly focus on those. For example, I'd make sure to re-release Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shining Force ep I-III, and any other Saturn classics on either PSOne or PS2.

Other than that, I'd also focusing on returning old franchises to their glory. For example, a full Phantasy Star RPG or a Sonic game that doesn't suck.

I'd also make sure that most games are also ported to PS2. The PS2 is a much larger market for games like Otogi and Shenmue.
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Old August 25th, 2003, 11:43 PM   #3
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Developement tools:
I'd focus on creating a middleware program that would allow for the devlopement of games and easy porting to the 3 currently available platforms. The middleware would still have to be flexible enough to allow for the addition of console specific enhancements, so it's not just a straight PS2 port for GameCube and XBox versions. Dev teams would be given the option to use this, rather than forced to (since using middleware does in fact limit the maximum effective use of each console). However, if they don't use the middleware, they are still required to make the game for all consoles, and they can not be direct ports from the weakest console.

Along with this, software would be made to allow for easier porting from Model 2/3, Naomi 1/2, and other Sega Arcade Boards.

Software Lineup:
I'd create several brandlines, with packaging to note this (there would likely be a stripe or logo on all products in a particular line, but nothing as annoyingly ugly as those greatest hits style packages). The lineups/brands would be Sega Sports, Sega Arcade, Sega Role-Playing, Sega Classic, and non-branded games.

Goals/Limits for specific Developement Teams:
Yuji Naka would be told to cease and disist on all current port jobs. There would be one final port/compilation for Sonic the Hedhog, to include Sonic CD and Sonic R. It would of course be released on all platforms.

Yu Suzuki would retain his creative freedom, but would be given a strict budget. This would allow him to make the games he wants, but not give him the idea that he can contine his wasteful spending like he has in the past.

Dev houses would be given guidelines on 3 types of games they can produce: ports, sequels, and original titles.

Sega.com would run polls to see which series deserved to be revisited with sequels. This would give sega fans some input that Sega currently ignores. No longer will Sega fans have to beg for a game like Shining Force only to be give Yukiyukiwakawaka-lets-rape-a-horse-5. Sequels will be made based on the feedback, but also on the reality involved. IE, Yuji Naka refuses to do a Nights sequel becuase he feels there is no reason to do it, nor could it live up to the original.

Ports would still be done, but not in the same form they are. Currently, Sega takes game that have already hit the mass market, and ports them to other system only to see cow-flop sales (Crazy Taxi), becuase everyone who wants it HAS IT. Instead, prots would be done of Sega's highest quality titles that never reached the mass market due to lack of advertising and low market penetration, IE, many of the Saturn's more obscure titles. However, since few people have seen these titles before, they'd be remade to take use of newer graphical features, with possible gameplay changes where desired.

I'd have no guidelines on original titles for now, as Sega hasn't done any recently, I see no reason to place limits on them.

Pricing would see a drastic change. Pricing of games would fall into 3 areas, based largely on the budget. If a game was a simple game that was made under a $500,000 budget and features arcadey gameplay, then it won't be priced at $50.

Prices would be:
$39.95 - high budget, highly advertised titles.
$29.95 - lower budget, arcade titles, with minimal advertising
$19.95 - low buget, no tv advertising titles, and best sellers.

Sega would be given an "It's done when it's done" motto, similar to Blizzard.

I'd oversee the RPG Lineups myself, since that is where I have a personal interest. My first year would focs on (but not releasing unless they could be done in that 12 months):

-Dragon Force 1 and 2 remake + translation. The remake would be to bring graphics up to par (cinemas would definitely be redone), and make some minor gameplay changes (nothing drastic). DF1 may have some legal issues if WD still owns the US Publishing rights to it, but as far as I know, they've lost those.

-Shining Force 3 Complete - also remade to take advantage of modern hardware, but retaining every other aspect. All 3 Scenarios would be made available and on one DVD/Disc. All Voice acting from attacks would be either redone completely, or removed and repalced with the original Japanese versions.

-Panzer Dragoon Saga would get a re-release and a grahpical upgrade.

-Mystaria - This would be a compilation of Riglord Saga/Mystaria/Blazing Heroes, + Riglord Saga 2 translated to English. Both games would be graphically updated.

-Skies of Arcadia 2 - While I'd have no personal input in this title (Overworks did such a fine job, I'd rather not be responsible for ruining it), I'd simply let OW resume work on it.

I'd also oversee a project that revived the Smashpack line, but in a different way. They would not be limited to just Genesis titles, they'd feature more greatest hits titles, and rather than jsut 10 random titles, would be released in genre disks.

An arcade genre disk may include a mix of Golden Axe, Shinobi,Streets of Rage titles, with Scud Racer, Daytona, Virtua Cop 1+2, and Virtua Racing.The RPG disc would feature all the Phantasy Star titles, the Shining Force Genesis games (including the CD versions).
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Old August 26th, 2003, 02:00 AM   #4
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Well, first I would flood the market with Sega classics.

VF4 Evo Plus, or something, would see a multi-platform release, and it would take a stab at Tekken in the commercials, which would feature the Sega Scream.

I would also take Sega part way back to the core, arcades. What made Crazy Taxi a mega-hit? Everyone played it in the arcades and then they had to own it. Crazy Taxi Next would be developed and released in every mall/arcade/theater. It would feature photorealistic graphics, it would not have a gay ass jump feature, and it would have enough diversity, detail, and insanity to make it the hit that the original was.

While entering back into arcade popularity I would employ the "Die Hard Arcade" franchise, "Golden Axe," and "Streets of Rage." The goal is simply, to re-create the highly addictive arcade gameplay which gamers cannot resist, and will buy in drones for any system, as they did with the previous home conversion frim the above arcade hits.

The market must be flooded with Saturn/Genesis hits. PSOne, Ngage, GBA, and especially the PSP need Genesis collections. Not just randomized collections like the Smash Pack, but they should be themed. Phantasy Star 1-4 on one disc. Shining Force 1, 2, and the Game Gear versions one one disc. Action games released on one volume. Shinobi all on one disc.

A full Sonic compelation must be released. The game must have all genesis Sonic games, all Game Gear Sonic games, Sonic R, Sonic 3D Blast, Knuckles Chaotix, and at least playable demo's of the unreleased Sonic 4 and Sonic X-Treme.

A new "Fighters Megamix" type game would be released. It will feature all VF stars, all Fighting Vipers stars, all Last Bronx stars, as well as cameo's from other popular Sega franchises, including such characters as, Sketch Turner, Vectorman, Rent-a-Hero, various characters of Shenmue fame, various character of Sonic fame, the Daytona car, a guy from Crazy Taxi, Ulala, Shinobi. If Sega are lucky they can convince Capcom or other companies to lincense a character or two to compete in their brawler.

Next on the agenda is to put an end to this "you get this game and you get that one" bullshit. No more exclusives. None. The only way that a game can be exclusive to a console is if, like in teh case of Shenmue II, the console developer picks up the publishing costs.

Phantasy Star Online is an excellent franchise which could have an expanding userbase. A full sequal needs to be made with a substancial graphical upgrade and more interactivity with the environment, more of an open-ened story, a much more vast landscape. Imagine comming accross a city or town while on the planet, imagine being able to travel from satalites to planets.

Sonic is the core. Sure, games like Sonic Adventure and Sonic Hero's are cool, but let's get real. Sonic the Hedgehog needs a game that stars Sonic the Hedgehog and features levels with more a focus on exploration.

Sega will re-launch other old franchises. Comix Zone can see a multi-platform release, witha much darker and much more in depth story line which will catch the eye of every casual gamer.

I will work at re-capturing Sega's RPG fanbase, starting by buying back RPG developers. First thing first. Re-release the Shining Force III Saga in completely updated 3D next gen graphics. Panzer Dragoon Saga will get the same treatment. A sequel to Skies of Arcadia will come quickly, as will a Shining the Holy Arc sequal, a Sword of Vermillion sequel, a Phantasy Star IV sequel, and a new Shining Wisdom game.

Saturn ports will be brought to the PSP, and select titles will be choosen for a remake, including NiGHTS, which will be followed up by a multiplatform sequel. New Alex Kidd titles will be scheduled to invade PSP, GBA, and Ngage.

Sega will widen the scope of its publishing arm. More third parties will be picked up by Sega the publisher, especially for PC.

Sega Sports will remain a focus, of course. Sega's superior online infrastructure can be key to success in the area.

After two or three years of agressively buying back quality developers and launching a massive rebirth of essential Sega franchises, the new software will flow out slowly, but surely.
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Old August 26th, 2003, 02:12 AM   #5
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Old August 26th, 2003, 05:55 PM   #6
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1. More GameCube support. There's a larger audience, especially in Japan, for some of the titles that were released for the Xbox. Jet Grind Radio, the original Shenmue (and their sequels, if the first games sell well enough to warrant it) and Sega GT 200X may as well be released for the Cube, which, as previously mentioned, is owned by more Japanese gamers and is also graphically capable. Sega alone can't help the sagging sales of the Cube, but it has a user base in Japan, more so than the big American box. The games released for the Xbox deserve more of an audience. Throw in some online support whenever possible to sweeten the deal.

2. Continue a sports label and release Sega Sports games on all major consoles.

3. Go back in time once in a while. Remakes are not unheard of, and those NiGHTS fans deserve some lovin'.

4. When there's a fifth VF game, go multplatform with that too. Soul Calibur II set that precedent.

5. But that doesn't mean that certain systems don't deserve exclusives. It gets hard to determine when that should be done, but each console deserves something special.

6. Based on point five. Sega is good at mech games. Bandai has a good franchise by the name of Mobile Suit Gundam. Ever heard of it? If Bandai gives its blessing, Sega could launch a three-pronged attack: three Gundam games, one for each console, each a different genre. If support is high, ports should be considered... eventually. Let the exclusivity run its course before porting to other consoles.

7. That must mean a busy Sega, so something must get the short end of the stick. I vote for the N-Gage.

8. Never make another console again.
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Old August 26th, 2003, 06:07 PM   #7
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Opps, I broke the rules, that was more of a two-year plan that I proposed.

Exodus: Good ideas, but I think you're relying too much on cool RPGs that really won't sell al that well, and will probally be meeted by the media with poor reviews.

Republic: More support for the GameCube is not the answer. Sega should support a system based on how software is selling on a system. Their software was not selling well on GC which is why they cut their sports line up from it.
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Old August 26th, 2003, 11:17 PM   #8
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RPGs are too niche, especially outside of Japan. I'd once and for all say a big "shut the fuck up and get over it" to all the whiny Shining Force fanboys. The only RPGs my Sega would make would be for handhelds, which have lower development budgets and a bigger fanboy demographic.

I agree with the "it's done when it's done" philosophy (to a degree). Shinobi needed more work and could have been much more successful if it hadn't gone out half-baked. This seems to happen with a lot of what's been going out since they went 3rd party.

I'd keep encouraging innovation, but also lean on the teams to make new concept games as accessible to the general market as possible, rather than letting fresh ideas flounder in niche markets.

You don't make sequels based on fanboy emails. You make them based on sales. On that note, thanks for playing Shenmue, but we're sorry, there won't be any more. We're putting that team to work on something just as epic, but with more accessible game mechanics.

Either make Sega GT better than Gran Turismo, or transform it into something new.

The GT/JSRF pack-in for Xbox was brilliant. Now they need to follow up by making a bigger, better JSRF sequel to get all the people who had a chance to play it.

It's hard to say what I'd do with Sonic. I'm afraid it's beyond repair, but I'm biased too because I think the base mechanics are fundamentally flawed. I'd make a clear separation between the speed parts and the exploration parts of the game.

Teams are welcome to develop a game specifically for GC or Xbox, but they need to be aware it's coming out on PS2 too, unless there's a money hat involved. Watered down on PS2 is fine, but it ships the same day.

And shit-can their marketing people. Hire Weiden and Kennedy (Nike) and hit hard when you we have a Grade AAA product on our hands.

Random enough for ya?
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Old August 28th, 2003, 02:15 AM   #9
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Not all RPGs are too niche. Shining Force is very playable to anyone 13+, and with detailed graphics and good marketing it can be a top seller. If Final Fantasy can sell in the numbers that it does, and that's a conventional RPG, then Phantasy Star and Skies of Arcadia can acheive success. Moreover, Panzer Dragoon Saga is hardly a conventional RPG. It's an epic that anyone can enjoy.
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Old August 29th, 2003, 12:18 AM   #10
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Of all the RPGs that come out, Final Fantasy is the only major seller, and even FF's sales dropped consistently from 7 to 8 to 9 as the mainstream market lost interest. The genre as a whole needs to start changing if it's to appeal to American gamers. KotOR and BGDA are steps in that direction. Of course, doing away with paper-and-dice simulators isn't what the hardcore whiners want.

There may come a time when Sega can invest resources in RPGs again, but right now isn't that time. They've bitten off enough trying to challenge EA's stranglehold on sports. Right now their focus should be profitable, mostly action adventure, games.

But mostly I just want the fanboys to shut up.
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Old August 29th, 2003, 03:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by mountpanic
Of all the RPGs that come out, Final Fantasy is the only major seller, and even FF's sales dropped consistently from 7 to 8 to 9 as the mainstream market lost interest. The genre as a whole needs to start changing if it's to appeal to American gamers. KotOR and BGDA are steps in that direction. Of course, doing away with paper-and-dice simulators isn't what the hardcore whiners want.


Are you sure that FF7 outsold eight, nine, and ten?

Moreover, Panzer Dragoon Saga and Shining Force aren't shitty paper and dice simulators like FF. But I agree, RPG's like that suck.
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Old August 29th, 2003, 07:17 PM   #12
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I am certain that 7 sold more than 8 which sold more than 9. I haven't seen the numbers on 10, so I didn't include it. I'd imagine it did better than 9, but I prophesy that 12 will drop from 10's numbers. 11 is something other, so I'm not factoring it in.

With their older franchises, they're still going to have to give them major revampings to earn new interest, essentially starting from scratch because no one likes coming in halfway through a movie. It's really just not a practical allocation of resources for Sega at this point. If they're going to do any RPGs, they should focus on ONE franchise, and build build it up until it becomes practical to add another.

They need to be focusing on the general (and yes, the casual) gaming public until they get some momentum back. They need to define their identity for their post-console future. The branding is a good idea, although I'm not sure I'd break it down the same way as Exodus.
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Old August 30th, 2003, 05:33 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by mountpanic


They need to be focusing on the general (and yes, the casual) gaming public until they get some momentum back. They need to define their identity for their post-console future. The branding is a good idea, although I'm not sure I'd break it down the same way as Exodus.
What's wrong with Sega is that they've got no meat and potatos. What made Genesis a success is that it had a hudge ammount of entertaining games, which came in a constant flow. Sega needs to start producing software like that again. Simple, fun, and pretty, and in a decent number. That is why they need to pump on their tested and priven franchises. Sega have more incredible franchises to choose from than any other developer: NiGHTS, Sonic, Chakken, Shinobi, Comix Zone, Alex Kidd, PSO, Phantasy Star, Panzer Dragoon, Golden Axe, Die Hard Arcade, Virtua Fighter, Fighting Vipers, Eternal Champions, Ecco, Daytona, Sega Rally, Sega GT, Sega Sports, House of the Dead, Crazy Taxi, Vectorman, Shining Force, Space Harrier, Sword of Vermillion, Afterburner, Hang-On, Columns, Clay Fighter, Puyo Puyo, Virtual On, and Virtua Cop and tried, tested, and proven Sega franchises. All of them have the potential to sell on, handhelds, current home platforms, and to succeed in the arcades.

RPGs have always been an attractive and successful genre. Phantasy Star was a cornerstone of Master System, Zelda defined NES, Chrono Cross, Final Fantasy, etc. were big sellers on the SNES, and Shining in the Darkness, Landstalker, Shining Force, and Phantasy Star were met with success on Genesis, Lunar sold well on Sega CD, PSOne was littered with big selling RPGs, PS2 has had a good number of successful RPGs, GBA has had many hits, such as FF Tactics and Golden Sun, Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II were met with success on Dreamcast, Zela, I think, is the best selling Gamecube title, and on Xbox Knights of the Old Republic became the fastest selling Xbox game. Good RPGs also bring attention to game consoles. The acclaim that Skies of Arcadia, PSO, and Graidia II recieved got the Dreamcast on the front cover of a few mags, and Fable isn't even out and it has been making a lot of buzz since it was announced.

As much as you and I may hate pen and paper sims like Final Fantasy, modern RPGs are more and more innovative, and RPGs like Shining Force, Zelda, and Panzer Dragoon Saga are far cries from the "traditional" RPG.
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Old August 30th, 2003, 07:38 AM   #14
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You're too close to the subject. The industry has changed and what was a success when gaming was a tiny niche is not necessarily going to be a success now. The non-hardcore don't even know wtf the Sega Master System is, or Grandia, or Shining Force, or Chakken, or Puyo Puyo, etc. It's not a private little club anymore, for good or ill, and you can't count on the game buying public to give a shit about something that was a niche hit ten years ago.

Fable is getting attention because of all the ways it's supposed to be innovative. I'm not saying a Shining Force game could never be a success again, but it's going to have to become something completely new, in which case the old SF fanboys are just going to bitch because it's not the way they remembered it. So why not just enjoy what it was and look forward to something new?

Total side note, honestly, how many fucking sword & sorcery fantasy RPGs do we need? That was one of the things I appreciated about KOTOR even before I played it. One thing I'll grant the RPG fanboys; they're reliable. Just keep their jones fixed with a small but steady stream of variations on the same old theme and they'll deliver.

As the technology advances and games become ever more detailed and immersive, many of the things that tend to get classified RPG are going to be absorbed by other genres. For example, the way that GTA3 is a narrative with a fleshed out environment, and does a better job at achieving many of these things. I guess I don't see the need to hang on to the idea of an RPG genre, as opposed to just making action adventure games with more and more layers of depth.
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Old August 30th, 2003, 07:44 AM   #15
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I'd like to do a topic about what really makes an RPG an RPG. What forum do you think would be the most suitable? I'd really prefer not to make it General. I'm leaning Sony just because PS2 still has the most.
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Old August 30th, 2003, 09:03 AM   #16
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Originally posted by mountpanic
I'd like to do a topic about what really makes an RPG an RPG. What forum do you think would be the most suitable? I'd really prefer not to make it General. I'm leaning Sony just because PS2 still has the most.
I'd say put it into General, I think most people visit that one, and it's not console specific. Why not General?
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Old August 30th, 2003, 09:55 AM   #17
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Originally posted by mountpanic
[You're too close to the subject. The industry has changed and what was a success when gaming was a tiny niche is not necessarily going to be a success now. The non-hardcore don't even know wtf the Sega Master System is, or Grandia, or Shining Force, or Chakken, or Puyo Puyo, etc. It's not a private little club anymore, for good or ill, and you can't count on the game buying public to give a shit about something that was a niche hit ten years ago.
Well, I don't think that any said game should, or would, acheive any success based on name alone, especially not Alex Kidd or Chakken, but what made them successful games of their time is the fact that they were good games, fun games, with good gameplay mechanics that kept people entertained. (BTW: On a side note, I just learned that there is a Chakken sequal in development, not by Sega, they licensed out the name, but the developer cannot find a publisher.) A good title in the line of, or based on, any of the wonderful properties that Sega owns can be successful if the formula is repeated. I didn't like Shinobi so much for PS2 because the formula was switched up, and I don't think that I'll like the new Vectorman, because it just looks like crap.

Sega do, still, have a number of great properties that they can develop new games from:

NiGHTS
Sonic
Chakken
Shinobi
Comix Zone
Alex Kidd
PSO
Phantasy Star
Panzer Dragoon
Golden Axe
Die Hard Arcade
Virtua Fighter
Fighting Vipers
Eternal Champions
Ecco
Daytona
Sega Rally
Sega GT
Sega Sports
House of the Dead
Crazy Taxi
Vectorman
Shining Force
Space Harrier
Sword of Vermillion
Afterburner
Hang-On
Columns
Clay Fighter
Puyo Puyo
Virtual On
Virtua Cop

The first thing that I would do, if I were Sega, is attempt to repeat the Crazy Taxi formula. By that I mean create a few excellent arcade games, get them into theaters, malls, colleges, and arcades, and then port them to the consoles. Sega have had great success with this formula with games like Streets of Rage, Virtua Fighter 2, Virtua Racer, Golden Axe, and Afterburner. I call it the Crazy Taxi formula because Crazy was perhaps the best, and most recent example of it. In late 1999/early 2000 Crazy Taxi was a phenomonon in gaming. It was extremely fun and addictive, it was new and original, and it was everywhere. People came into my store and asked for it all of the time. Of course, few of them owned a Dreamcast, nor were they willing to plop down the $199 for it, but if it were on PSOne, for example, I am sure that Sega would've sold three to four times more copies.

Sega can do it again. I haven't played Virtua Cop 3, but a game like that could be a good start. A Streets of Rage kind of title, or even Golden Axe, might attract attention. If I were them I would develop and market a good looking, deeper, more detalied Crazy Taxi title and try to get the cabnet just as much, if not more, penetration as the first.

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Fable is getting attention because of all the ways it's supposed to be innovative. I'm not saying a Shining Force game could never be a success again, but it's going to have to become something completely new, in which case the old SF fanboys are just going to bitch because it's not the way they remembered it. So why not just enjoy what it was and look forward to something new?
Shining Force does not need to change the game mechanic. Infact, strategy RPGs have not changed much over the years. Shining Force was basically a grid type system, the same system that most strategy RPGs use. It's not the turn-based Final Fantasy type of a game. I am explaining this because I get the feeling that you haven't played a Shining Force game, but I could be wrong... The last Shining Force title was released in the US in 1998 for Saturn. I believe that a 3D remake of that game could be a success in today's market. The only thing which would have to change about a game like Shining Force is that it would have to meet the times, it would have to be a game for 2004. That means that it would need to look more epic, it would need to evolve from 2D to 3D, it would need to use cinimatics, and it would need voice-overs. The game play mechanic should remain untouched, because it's actually very, very good, I can only think of a few slight tweeks which should be made to invatory systems and such, but the combat is fine.

Fable is an extreme example. But RPGs do make noise for whichever console they're on. Skies of Arcadia and Grandia II graced the covers of many a game magazine when they were released, as did PSO. Those three games, which didn't sell badly, got the name Dreamcast out there, they made noise for the system and generated a lot of internet buzz.

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Total side note, honestly, how many fucking sword & sorcery fantasy RPGs do we need? That was one of the things I appreciated about KOTOR even before I played it. One thing I'll grant the RPG fanboys; they're reliable. Just keep their jones fixed with a small but steady stream of variations on the same old theme and they'll deliver.
IMO we don't need anymore of the classic Final Fantasy style of RPG. However, people seem to dig it. Turn-based RPGs like Pokemon on the Gameboy are essentially turn-based RPGs, and they are amazingly popular and are met with critical acclaim. The thing about an RPG is that for it to be successful it needs to really have a good story, a really good one, and it should have interesting combat, and it should have good visuals as well. In addition, item and/or character customization is almost a must.

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As the technology advances and games become ever more detailed and immersive, many of the things that tend to get classified RPG are going to be absorbed by other genres. For example, the way that GTA3 is a narrative with a fleshed out environment, and does a better job at achieving many of these things. I guess I don't see the need to hang on to the idea of an RPG genre, as opposed to just making action adventure games with more and more layers of depth.
Well, a RPG is really defined by gameplay mechanic, not how well it tells a story. Adventure has to do with story. Myst or D, for example, only told a story, there were no other gameplay elements, such as action, or battle. They are pure adventure games. The example that you present, GTA3, or even Max Payne, are action games that tell a story. So, they can be classified as Action/Adventure. Action, for the gameplay elements, and adventure, for the story aspects. Sonic Adventure was a platform game with heavy adventure elements.

A Role Playing Ggame can be defined by two things. All RPGs have one thing in common. You have one or more characters and you build their stats, usually by gaining EXP. There are many different types of RPGs. The most common would be the Final Fantasy/Phantasy Star style. Boring, bland, turn-based, random combat. Another kind is the Strategy/RPG. Examples of this are Shining Force, Ogre Battle, or Final Fantasy Tactics. In this type of game you control a party and you strategicly move and position you characters to defeat the enemies. This is the very best way to simulate "real time" while control 2-12 characters at once. There are games like Advance Wars which are purely strategy games and they lack any story elements that makes an RPG an RPG. There are also Action/RPGs. The Legend of Zelda franchise is the most popular of these. Other examples would be Landstalker or Beyond Oasis. In these games you don't gain levels or increase stats by fighting for EXP, but you do so by gathering items, like hearts, for example. I really don't like this concept because it does not reward you for fighting/skill, but only for discovering some hard to find hearts. There are also Action/RPGs in which you gain EXP to increase stats, and gain levels. Good examples of this are PSO, Y's III, Diablo, and almost any MMORPG. There are even some Action/RPGs which have random battles, D2 and Sword of Vermillion come to mind. And then you have RPGs like Panzer Dragoon Saga, that I don't know what to call... You don't take turns, and you have real-time control of movement, there are random battles, and you have to wait for meters to charge before an attack. (It should be noted that Panzer Dragoon Saga is the best game ever.) I don't think that I've left out any type of RPG.
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Old August 30th, 2003, 04:59 PM   #18
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I'd say put it into General, I think most people visit that one, and it's not console specific. Why not General?
A) Legitimate topics have a way of turning to shit in General., which 2) is part of why I'm kinda trying to take a break from it. DG inspired me but I didn't feel the need to announce it.
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Old August 30th, 2003, 05:18 PM   #19
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A) Legitimate topics have a way of turning to shit in General., which 2) is part of why I'm kinda trying to take a break from it. DG inspired me but I didn't feel the need to announce it.
Well...

That forum cannot recover unless good posters make some good threads.
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Old August 30th, 2003, 08:47 PM   #20
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Well...

That forum cannot recover unless good posters make some good threads.
I'm taking the approach that without tinder, the flaming may burn itself out. For example, TMO would get bored if he had nothing but another TMO to deal with.

I dunno, I'll think about it. I may just need a few days away, maybe more, maybe much more. I have enough aggravations already.
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Old August 31st, 2003, 12:50 AM   #21
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Originally posted by mountpanic
I'm taking the approach that without tinder, the flaming may burn itself out. For example, TMO would get bored if he had nothing but another TMO to deal with.

I dunno, I'll think about it. I may just need a few days away, maybe more, maybe much more. I have enough aggravations already.
True, either way, we can have the conversation in this thread.
I think that I covered all of the bases on what makes an RPG an RPG.
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Old August 31st, 2003, 04:15 PM   #22
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I'm not asking what makes an RPG an RPG because I don't know, but because I think there are different opinions on it and I think that the main characteristic, game mechanics, is overly limiting.

Challenge: How are Onimusha and Devil May Cry NOT RPGs by your definition? You gain experience and gain abilities and customize your character with weapons.

I'ma take it over to the Sony forum...
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Old August 31st, 2003, 07:02 PM   #23
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Challenge: How are Onimusha and Devil May Cry NOT RPGs by your definition? You gain experience and gain abilities and customize your character with weapons.

You don't gain levels.
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Old September 1st, 2003, 04:22 AM   #24
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You don't gain levels.
Semantic. You gain life and attack power.
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Old September 2nd, 2003, 07:13 AM   #25
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Semantic. You gain life and attack power.
Not even as a part of the same system.
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