ConsoleCity Forums   GameStop, Inc.

Go Back   ConsoleCity Forums > ConsoleCity > General
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

General ConsoleCity's general discussion forum, post anything and everything here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rating: Thread Rating: 3 votes, 4.67 average. Display Modes
Old February 25th, 2013, 10:24 AM   #101
Old Fart Gamer
Registered User
 
Old Fart Gamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 9,507
Old Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond repute

PSN: Big_Daddy_OFG

Games Owned: 18
Games Wanted: 0
Yes, I am laughing. I am pointing at you and laughing.

All you have to do to shut me up permanently, Overkill, is show me the cure. Better yet, show all of us. Show the world.

Show me the 100% successful, I can drink like a normal person cure.

Pretty simple, right smart guy?

Show me.
__________________
"Recovering alchie"

~Moon Tears

"Live and let live."

Logan Douglas Hannan
1/1/2006 - 3/10/2006
Rest in peace, little man.
Old Fart Gamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old February 25th, 2013, 05:36 PM   #102
Z_E_R_O
Registered User
 
Z_E_R_O's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,648
Z_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of light


Games Owned: 0
Games Wanted: 0
If I lost all my money gambling and drove my entire life into a fucking pit of despair would having money make it OK for me to gamble again? I am talking one day I beg for change and buy a lottery ticket and win ten billion. Debt would be really hard to create with all the money. See, already I would have been thinking about gambling because I was gambling by playing the lottery. So there never was a cure because it never happened. This is how I view the "wish I could just have a drink like a normal person" argument. But also, if you have quit something, you have quit it. Quit it and forget it.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahn View Post

I would just prefer it to be a sausagefest.
Z_E_R_O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2013, 10:42 AM   #103
Daydreamer
Registered User
 
Daydreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,778
Daydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really nice


Games Owned: 0
Games Wanted: 0
Send a message via AIM to Daydreamer
They don't hide the history with the oxford club. It was brought up pretty quickly by my sponsor. Every AA book is just suggested reading, btw. As in,"This book was written by an alchie, so take from it what you can". I've never seen anyone tell anyone to date within AA groups. Unless you're just talking about the one year of abstinence thing, which both outpatient rehabs I went to harped on to the point of annoyance.


And I have to say, any results for,"effectiveness" with AA have been skewed. It doesn't promise to keep you sober indefinitely once you hit some mark. It does say it works if you work it, and it does promise spiritual progress. In that it's been 100 percent effective so far in a sample group of me. So, can you let the thread be about what it was supposed to be about?

I finished through step 7 now, guys. I'll be out of the Army really soon(60 days or so) and my sponsor is trying to pace the step work(through 11) to my approximate date of departure. Alcohol doesn't even sound good to me any more, only those fleeting moments when I'm thinking about the good times and forgetting the bad endings

Last edited by Daydreamer : February 26th, 2013 at 10:50 AM.
Daydreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2013, 11:20 AM   #104
Old Fart Gamer
Registered User
 
Old Fart Gamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 9,507
Old Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond repute

PSN: Big_Daddy_OFG

Games Owned: 18
Games Wanted: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
They don't hide the history with the oxford club. It was brought up pretty quickly by my sponsor. Every AA book is just suggested reading, btw. As in,"This book was written by an alchie, so take from it what you can". I've never seen anyone tell anyone to date within AA groups. Unless you're just talking about the one year of abstinence thing, which both outpatient rehabs I went to harped on to the point of annoyance.


And I have to say, any results for,"effectiveness" with AA have been skewed. It doesn't promise to keep you sober indefinitely once you hit some mark. It does say it works if you work it, and it does promise spiritual progress. In that it's been 100 percent effective so far in a sample group of me. So, can you let the thread be about what it was supposed to be about?

I finished through step 7 now, guys. I'll be out of the Army really soon(60 days or so) and my sponsor is trying to pace the step work(through 11) to my approximate date of departure. Alcohol doesn't even sound good to me any more, only those fleeting moments when I'm thinking about the good times and forgetting the bad endings
Well said.

It's been 100% effective so far in the sample group of me as well...one day at a time.
__________________
"Recovering alchie"

~Moon Tears

"Live and let live."

Logan Douglas Hannan
1/1/2006 - 3/10/2006
Rest in peace, little man.
Old Fart Gamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old February 26th, 2013, 12:24 PM   #105
CAPninja
Registered User
 
CAPninja's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: so.cal
Posts: 2,867
CAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really niceCAPninja is just really nice

Live!: King Barf

Games Owned: 0
Games Wanted: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Overkill View Post

Here's even a video of him tripping.
Where in that video was he tripping? Or did I miss it? Did you post the wrong vid?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sailor View Post
Ain't that a hole in a boat.
CAPninja is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2013, 06:30 PM   #106
Overkill
Staff Member
 
Overkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 20,444
Overkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond repute

Live!: Zadoc

Games Owned: 432
Games Wanted: 81
Send a message via ICQ to Overkill Send a message via AIM to Overkill Send a message via MSN to Overkill Send a message via Yahoo to Overkill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fart Gamer View Post
Yes, I am laughing.
And I think that laughing at people who are dying because of your cult makes you a sick twisted fuck.

Quote:
All you have to do to shut me up permanently, Overkill, is show me the cure. Better yet, show all of us. Show the world.
Shut you up pertinently... Was that ever my stated objective? No. You fail at your fallacy of logic.

My objective was to show that...

1. AA is more likely to kill you than if you try to quit on your own.
2. AA is not science.
3. AA is less effective than therapy and medical treatment.
4. AA will make you more likely to drink.
5. AA is a faith based organization.
6. AA is a cult.
7. AA is dangerous.
8. 12 steps do not work.
9. AA has a success rate less than that of people who quit on their own.
10. AA is more likely to make a person binge drink.
11. AA is anti-science.
12. AA is hostile to anyone who disagrees with 12-steps.
13. AA deifies its founders and yet they were corrupt.
14. AA uses terms not recognized by science to mask that the addiction is easily treatable psychological and physical issues.
15. AA cultists will not face any realities of the above shortcomings of AA and will resort to nonsense, pre-programmed responses that they have been indoctrinated with.

I demonstrated 1-14. You certainly did a good job of proving the latter. I could not have done it without you.

Everyone else reading...

I produced well-sourced scientific and legal backing for every claim I made and OFG's childish response is, and I quote, (I don't even have to make it up), is "I am laughing. I am pointing at you and laughing."

His response to scientific research conducted by AA that shows that AA is more likely to cause harm than to help, more like to kill than to help, was to laugh. He's laughing at the harm and death that he has contributed to.

If a reasonable person were part of a group that caused harm and death, and they found out, then they'd avail themselves of it, admonish it, and try to make it right somehow.

An irrational person doubles down.

Here's the logic of OFG's argument summed up.

Cultist: There's no proof of evolution.
Scientist: Sure there is. We have the fossil record, here's what we've learned from genetics, microbiology, etc.
Cultist: Well, if evolution is real then were is crockaduck?

Scientist: Uhh... here are some very specfic reasons why that's total nonsense.
Cultist: CHECKMATE!

It's the same damn thing.

If anyone had any respect for OFG, now's the time to flush it down the loo.


Quote:
Show me the 100% successful, I can drink like a normal person cure.
As if there was ever an argument that there is such a thing as a 100% cure. In fact, I never once used the term "cure," I used the term "treatment."

In science treatment is prescribed based on probability of success. For example, if a patient has cancer, then it is more likely that treatment with radiation will help their condition than treatment with prayer or some form of psudoscience. Just as Steve Jobs how well psudoscience worked for him. He at least admitted that by ignoring medical treatment in favor of nonsense he decreased his lifespan.

AA works at best five percent of the time, at worst it has more than a 100 percent failure rate, and in all likelihood it works zero percent of the time.

On the other hand, medical treatments work 20 percent of the time on the first outing.

If I have a disease and there's a treatment with a -5% to 5% chance of helping me, and one with a greater than 20 percent chance of helping me, I am going to go with the latter rather than the former.
Overkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2013, 06:55 PM   #107
Overkill
Staff Member
 
Overkill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 20,444
Overkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond reputeOverkill has a reputation beyond repute

Live!: Zadoc

Games Owned: 432
Games Wanted: 81
Send a message via ICQ to Overkill Send a message via AIM to Overkill Send a message via MSN to Overkill Send a message via Yahoo to Overkill
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daydreamer View Post
They don't hide the history with the oxford club.
They only mention it so you don't find out on your own, and they typically do so in a way that favors them. It's typical PR spin. What they hide is the actual purpose of it. What did they exactly tell you?

Quote:
Every AA book is just suggested reading, btw. As in,"This book was written by an alchie, so take from it what you can".
Are you telling me that your sponsor doesn't ask you to read parts of it? Are you also telling me that the 12 steps are optional? Because, you know where those come from, right? If you're required to complete the 12 steps than the teachings of the Big Book aren't optional, they're mandatory.

Quote:
I've never seen anyone tell anyone to date within AA groups.
Really? You've never heard phrases like "only we can understand each other?" Or "normys can't ever truly know an alcoholic," or any variation on that? I am sure you have. You really don't think that you're being conditioned to not form relationships outside of AA? Have they ever mentioned your relationships with your friends, the ones you used to drink with?

Quote:
And I have to say, any results for,"effectiveness" with AA have been skewed.
How is that? The results I was quoting come from AA themselves.

Quote:
It does say it works if you work it
Yes, and what does it say about people who fail? That they were not able to follow these simple steps, right? It takes the failure away from the treatment method and it blames the individual.

Now, let me ask you this, if I had an infection, and I were prescribed antibiotics, and I took them as directed, and they didn't work, would it be my fault that the antibiotic was unable to kill the infection? Or would we logically assume that a different antibiotic was needed for this infection, and go back to the doctor for a different treatment?

In AA, there is no such thing as their treatment failing, and there is no such thing as another treatment.

Also, are you still receiving actual treatment?

You said you just finished step 7, which to my knowledge is where you ask for god to remove your defects.

Which higher power is it that is going to "fix" you?
Overkill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 3rd, 2013, 10:20 PM   #108
Old Fart Gamer
Registered User
 
Old Fart Gamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 9,507
Old Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond repute

PSN: Big_Daddy_OFG

Games Owned: 18
Games Wanted: 0
Okay, despite the fact that I've been sober for over 20 years and I know thousands of people that have been restored to productive lives through the program of AA, you attack it as harmful. Fine. You call AA a cult. Fine. And yet you still can't offer any program that helps other people recover from alcoholism. If an alcoholic shouldn't go to AA, where should they go for help?
__________________
"Recovering alchie"

~Moon Tears

"Live and let live."

Logan Douglas Hannan
1/1/2006 - 3/10/2006
Rest in peace, little man.
Old Fart Gamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2013, 02:04 AM   #109
Exodus
Registered User
 
Exodus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Auburn, WA
Posts: 10,558
Exodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud ofExodus has much to be proud of


Games Owned: 116
Games Wanted: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Fart Gamer View Post
Okay, despite the fact that I've been sober for over 20 years and I know thousands of people that have been restored to productive lives through the program of AA, you attack it as harmful. Fine. You call AA a cult. Fine. And yet you still can't offer any program that helps other people recover from alcoholism. If an alcoholic shouldn't go to AA, where should they go for help?
OFG, you're better than this. Stop feeding the troll. Very few people on this board take him seriously anymore. He's replaced Pun and O-Flow as the board raving lunatic.

It's not you that has a problem, it's him. As much as I can't sand Rob now, he used to be a good guy. I sincerely hope, outside of these forums, he doesn't have something going on. If he does, I hope that he seeks help.
Exodus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2013, 09:17 AM   #110
Old Fart Gamer
Registered User
 
Old Fart Gamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Posts: 9,507
Old Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond reputeOld Fart Gamer has a reputation beyond repute

PSN: Big_Daddy_OFG

Games Owned: 18
Games Wanted: 0
Quote:
Originally Posted by Exodus View Post
OFG, you're better than this. Stop feeding the troll. Very few people on this board take him seriously anymore. He's replaced Pun and O-Flow as the board raving lunatic.

It's not you that has a problem, it's him. As much as I can't sand Rob now, he used to be a good guy. I sincerely hope, outside of these forums, he doesn't have something going on. If he does, I hope that he seeks help.
You're right, of course. I really don't mind the shit he says about me or AA. Doesn't bother me at all. But what I do mind is that by spewing all his nonsensical gibberish, he might dissuade someone from seeking the help they need. I'm not, and never will be, an AA cheerleader. That's not the way it works. "Our public relations policy is based on attraction rather than promotion." So Rob can bash AA all he wants (and breastfeeding and religion and whatever else gets him hard) but at least offer an alternative program that someone who wants to seek help could investigate.

I'm done. Live and let live.
__________________
"Recovering alchie"

~Moon Tears

"Live and let live."

Logan Douglas Hannan
1/1/2006 - 3/10/2006
Rest in peace, little man.
Old Fart Gamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 4th, 2013, 05:45 PM   #111
Z_E_R_O
Registered User
 
Z_E_R_O's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 8,648
Z_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of lightZ_E_R_O is a glorious beacon of light


Games Owned: 0
Games Wanted: 0
I disagree. He has a very valid argument. You do not like his tone, surely he doesn't like yours. If it is tl;dr, don't read it. I see plenty of things he posts all over the web, he's still as good of a guy as ever. It's just this right here that is the discussion....this shit happens with passionate opposing sides. Does anyone here not have anyone they can argue with all day and at the end of the day overlook what they see as "bullshit"?

It is my opinion, and I know lots of these "guys", that OFG quit...then joined AA. Didn't he say he fell down the steps and then saw himself in the mirror? If this doesn't make sense say what you want but I think those that quit actually join the support group because they have quit. I also think men who wear socks with flip-flops are the Webster's Dictionary example of a douche. What do I know? If AA works for an individual FINE. I would never be one to allow a loved one to join that group. It would be a fight. Would rather they joined LDS.

What nobody has mentioned here is the OP. Hello!?? Are you guys that concerned with in-arguing and debate that you forgot who posted this? Notice how Indra has not been back here since this(at least this thread)?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pahn View Post

I would just prefer it to be a sausagefest.
Z_E_R_O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 5th, 2013, 10:15 PM   #112
Daydreamer
Registered User
 
Daydreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,778
Daydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really nice


Games Owned: 0
Games Wanted: 0
Send a message via AIM to Daydreamer
Are you telling me that your sponsor doesn't ask you to read parts of it? Are you also telling me that the 12 steps are optional? Because, you know where those come from, right? If you're required to complete the 12 steps than the teachings of the Big Book aren't optional, they're mandatory.

My sponsor told me to take from it what I can and leave the rest. You can't be required to complete the 12 steps because nothing is required at all. You're not even asked to do the 12 steps until you ask for a sponsor. so, nix all that.

-Really? You've never heard phrases like "only we can understand each other?" Or "normys can't ever truly know an alcoholic," or any variation on that? I am sure you have. You really don't think that you're being conditioned to not form relationships outside of AA? Have they ever mentioned your relationships with your friends, the ones you used to drink with?

Mentioned, sure. As they should. They probably don't emphasize it enough. Not as much as outpatient treatment, with specialist in the field, who harped on it every single day. Or my doctor, who strongly made the same point.




Yes, and what does it say about people who fail? That they were not able to follow these simple steps, right? It takes the failure away from the treatment method and it blames the individual.

It says that some people are constitutionally unable or have a mental disability that prevents them from recovery within AA.

[quote]Now, let me ask you this, if I had an infection, and I were prescribed antibiotics, and I took them as directed, and they didn't work, would it be my fault that the antibiotic was unable to kill the infection? Or would we logically assume that a different antibiotic was needed for this infection, and go back to the doctor for a different treatment?[/quotep

In AA, there is no such thing as their treatment failing, and there is no such thing as another treatment.

I wanted to mention this because you are either uninformed or a liar, either way it needs to stop being repeated. I have a pamphlet I use as a bookmark, it's at work right now, and it's officially sanctioned by AA. It is about 4-6 pages of,"some people need help outside of AA, for some people it's vitally important to take and stay on medications, and people who say so otherwise are putting that individual at risk". So, please, please, stop. At least that one line. It's driving me nutz.

Also, are you still receiving actual treatment?

I will receive medication and therapy for free for the rest of my life, I utilize them fully, will continue to do so, and they all say AA is great and that I should continue with it.

You said you just finished step 7, which to my knowledge is where you ask for god to remove your defects.

Which higher power is it that is going to "fix" you?

I changed the step. Because it's a suggestion and I can do what I want, it's my program, not Bill W's, fuck that guy. My sponsor didn't have an issue with that, either. I'm a secular buddhist, as I've been for a long time, and I made a commitment to apply myself fully to the principles that I believe are higher than individual humans. "certain inalienable truths" or,"an exalted set of guiding principles".
Daydreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old March 6th, 2013, 05:25 PM   #113
Daydreamer
Registered User
 
Daydreamer's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Pensacola, FL
Posts: 1,778
Daydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really niceDaydreamer is just really nice


Games Owned: 0
Games Wanted: 0
Send a message via AIM to Daydreamer
Ok so I regret implying you were a liar and any other aggressive things I may have said up there. It's just frustrating to try to make the same points over when I feel I've made them clearly before. You already said you think I'm doing it right, I've said I'm not totally atypical in the program. *shrug*
Daydreamer is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:45 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.