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Old August 22nd, 2003, 12:38 PM   #1
DG
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Dave Ross on Iraq

I can just hear the Right Wingers groaning now. "Here comes DG with some whiny liberal railing against the war."

Dave Ross is not a "whiny liberal". He's even gone on record defending The Patriot Act. But he is for the most part a very clear thinker which seems to be a rarity these days.
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Aug 19, 2003
IRAQ

Somebody wants a bigger fight...

Just as a news conference was underway at UN Headquarters in Baghdad, a giant bomb went off outside, collapsing the front of the building.

It turns out a delegation of US members of Congress was scheduled to be at that news conference. But they were late, and never got there. To quote an aide to one of the Senators -- "We're lucky."

Somebody is really serious about picking a fight with us.

We keep capturing the bad guys, but it just attracts NEW bad guys. Bad guys who've always wanted a chance to get Americans, and suddenly find the commute is now a lot shorter.

Of course, this attack not militarily significant -- anymore than picking off individual soldiers is militarily significant. But terrorists aren't looking for a military victory; the UN wasn't the ultimate target today -- you and I are the ultimate targets.

They want to remind us that this won't be the kind of fight we expected.

Thanks. We get it.

Today is significant for another reason, too.

Today marks 111 days since the official end of the war. That's exactly how long we gave the UN inspectors before running out of patience. After 111 days we decided the inspectors had had plenty of time to find the Saddam's weapons, and that, backed up by overwhelming evidence, we had no choice but to defy the cautious voices from Russia, France, and Germany, and find those weapons ourselves.

The difference is, there is no higher authority to run out of patience with us, except us. And the terrorists know it.

http://wcbs880.com/daveross/
His site's worth checking out. I hear him on the radio every day, so I don't normally browse the site.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 12:46 PM   #2
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Thing is (with me at least) I am not afraid of the fight! I look at I srael and the absolute crap they put up with all the time and then wonder how we Americans can sit and eat Happy Meals all day with this garbage going on in the world!

We finally step up to do something and people start to die and it's then time to get the hell out of there.

What happened to America's desire to fight for what's right and just? Since when did we become cowards and tell everyone "it's your problem"?

That's why I don't think this war/fight goes against Christian beliefs. What's more Christian than fighting for liberty and freedom? What's more Christian than standing up to the bullies of the world and over coming them for the down trodden?

I hope this is just the beginning. If you're afraid just say so and stand aside while the real men fight.

THank GOd you weren't around doing the revolution. You would be telling us how the King wasn't such a bad guy after all!
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 12:51 PM   #3
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are we the worlds police force? No...
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 12:53 PM   #4
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Did we used to stand against evil everywhere?

YES!

I just can't believe how much this COuntry has "wimped" out over the years. I swear to god it's those Vietnam movies and documentaries. They've got an entire generation scared to death of any kind of conflict.

Our LEADERS lost that war fella's! Not our military. You do know that right?
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 12:53 PM   #5
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The Punisher, you're so far out of touch it's almost creepy.

Now you're comparing "liberating" Iraq with the American Revolution? Have you finally gone mad?

Did Iraq attack us?
Did Iraq threaten us?

While we're in Iraq bigger threats, (like North Korea), go unchallenged. Afaganastan ends up on the back-burner, (or don't you think that fight is worth finishing?)

You're a sheep. Nothing like our founding fathers. You definately WOULD say the King wasn't so bad because at the time of the revolution he was still in charge. And anyone that dare questioned the KIng would be labeled a "traiter" by your kind.

It's interesting, and baffling, debating with you. It's almost like debating with someone from another planet, or an alternate "cartoon universe" where everything is incredibly simple and clear cut. The bad guys all wear black hats while the good guys can do no wrong.

It must be nice to live in such a simple world.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 12:59 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Punisher
Did we used to stand against evil everywhere?

YES!
NO!

We stood up for ourselves and our allies. When things turned bad was when we failed to tool down after WWII, (a JUST war in my opinion). Once the government had a full standing army they began to use it for purely political reasons, rather than self defense of ourselves or our allies.

First we went to Korea to battle the evils of communism. All those lives lost and Korea is still a divided country.

Ever since, our leaders have been abusing the power of our military. Now we have a President calling a pre-emptive strike on a country we already beat into the ground a decade ago. The fact that both the President and VP have strong ties to the oil industry AND the oil industry stands to make a lot of cash on the war AND Bush showed extreme impatience with the UN's weapons inspectors and literally had to 'stretch the truth' to get us into this war should make any rational person suspicious of his motives.

The founding fathers almost added a clause to the Constitution against having a standing army at any time other than times of war. Apparantly some of them saw this coming.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 01:00 PM   #7
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Hell no!

I want to take Afaganastan off the freaking map already. It's people like you overly concerned with the "innocent" that keep us on the slow pace that were on.

It's people like you who don't want a draft or more money spent on our military that keep us away from more than one or two conflicts at a time!

It's people like you who insisted that our CIA had to stop running assassination jobs that got idiots like N Korea's leader running around like a loon!

And you do know why N Korea has nukes right? Clinton gave them the cash and technology to build nuke plants so long as they promised not to make weapons!

Iraq attacked their neighbors and threatened to do so every day! Iraq attacked it's own citizens every day! Iraq deserved what it got! It should have happened years ago but George Senior saw "shades of grey" that you favor so much.

After we straighten out Iraq I hope we take out Iran and Syria as well. The majority of those idiots over there are terrorists or at least back terrorists. It would be nice if my grand kids children could grow up in a world absent of anyone similar to those who attacked us on 9-11.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 01:03 PM   #8
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Communism was the biggest force of evil in the world. While it's threat has dwindled replaced by Islamic terror, it should still be fought against as much as possible.

The CIA should have taken out Castro YEARS ago.
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What is a Christian?
1. According to the Bible, a Christian is a person who has faced realistically the problem of his own personal sin.
2. one who has seriously considered the divine remedy for sin.
3. one who has wholeheartedly complied with the terms for obtaining God 's provision for sin.
4 a person who manifests in his life that his claims to repentance and faith are real.

Some of the best Christian doctrine books:
http://www.rmiweb.org/books.htm
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 01:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Punisher
Hell no!

I want to take Afaganastan off the freaking map already. It's people like you overly concerned with the "innocent" that keep us on the slow pace that were on.

It's people like you who don't want a draft or more money spent on our military that keep us away from more than one or two conflicts at a time!
LOL!!!!!!

Now you're off the deep end! Do you propose nuking every dictator ridden pisshole on the planet to pick up the pace? The fallout alone would kill "the good guys". Plus people generally enjoy being liberated from a dictator AND being alive to enjoy their new found freedom. They probably won't enjoy their freedom as much as a pile of radioactive ash.

And about funding the military, weren't you just whining the other day about the Big Bad Government dipping into your spending money? Republicans whine louder than anyone about taxes, yet they keep spending us into the most massive debt in history to pay for their wars.

Idiocy. Sheer idiocy. Do you think the money for war comes out of thin air?

Maybe you could have your cake and eat it too. You could pray extra hard to God to let you keep your 60k a year, pay no rent, AND fund all these holy wars for you.

I've heard the phrase "more money than God", maybe we could hit him up for a loan to pay for liberating the planet? It's a just cause right? God should be all for pitching in a little cash to make it happen.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 01:14 PM   #10
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What's more Christian than fighting for liberty and freedom? What's more Christian than standing up to the bullies of the world and over coming them for the down trodden?
Everything? Forgiveness? Sacrifice? Charity? Repentance?

What's less Christian than killing, lying, stealing, and avenging?

I think you're confusing Jesus Christ and Barabas.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 01:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by The Punisher
Communism was the biggest force of evil in the world. While it's threat has dwindled replaced by Islamic terror, it should still be fought against as much as possible.

The CIA should have taken out Castro YEARS ago.
Stalin was a nightmare I'll give you that. But "biggest force of evil in the world?" Are you talking about most lives lost, then you have to give the award to the lowly mosquito. Mosquitos have killed more humans than anything else. (Yep, it's bizarre but true.)

As far as an idology, Communism in it's purest form doesn't sound too evil. But when you factor human greed into the equation it turns into a nightmare. It never works in practice because the ruling power ends up taking nearly all the resources for themselves. But communism has taken care of itself by driving every country that embraces it into near bankruptcy.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 01:16 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by DG
Are you talking about most lives lost, then you have to give the award to the lowly mosquito. Mosquitos have killed more humans than anything else. (Yep, it's bizarre but true.)

lets fucking nuke those things......
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 01:36 PM   #13
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There are very few forms of wildlife I hate.

But if I see a mosquito inside I squash it immediately.

Normally I'm the kind of person that never kills anything. For example, if I see a nasty looking spider, I just trap it in a cup and let it loose outside. I leave the web-builders be so they can hopefully catch a mosquito or two.

They're like contaminated hyperdermic needles flying around. I can't stand 'em.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 04:51 PM   #14
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I saw a poll on cnn yesterday and it said only like 28% of americans think that they should send over more troops for peacekeeping missions....I was seriously disgusted by that, a majority supported goin over there and blowing the shit outta the place, the least they could do is fix up what they destroyed and help the children they left homeless and orphaned
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 05:29 PM   #15
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Quote:
Did we used to stand against evil everywhere?

YES!
When was that?


Quote:
Originally posted by The Punisher
Communism was the biggest force of evil in the world. While it's threat has dwindled replaced by Islamic terror, it should still be fought against as much as possible.

The CIA should have taken out Castro YEARS ago.
ahah haha ........yeah Castro is decaying Western Civilzation. If you are serious about stoping communism then why start at such a piss ant of a country like Cuba? Go straight to the heart and declare war on China and Mongolia.
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Old August 22nd, 2003, 06:26 PM   #16
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I support the attack on iraq, if it leads to a tolerable government it will have been a success. It seems to me that this the start of a campaign to bring democracy to the middle east. When talking about Korea you can't attack that country because they have thousands of artilery that can level Seoul in a short time. I view Islam as the biggest threat to our western values and people.
America and Europe must stand together against this threat.
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