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Old January 22nd, 2005, 12:59 AM   #76
Shaolin
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I was looking for something else, but just had to re-bump the theological ASS whoopin that Krakken threw down. My oh my.
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Old January 22nd, 2005, 03:21 AM   #77
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Arrow We all know there is but only one true god we must kneel before...

Zod.

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Old January 22nd, 2005, 04:20 AM   #78
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I still don't see why Pun had to deliver his message via PM.

(Other than the fact that he would be contested and this thread would be at least 18 pages by now)
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Old January 25th, 2005, 06:02 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by Shaolin
I was looking for something else, but just had to re-bump the theological ASS whoopin that Krakken threw down. My oh my.
I forgot all about this. It could have been worse. Much MUCH worse.
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Old January 25th, 2005, 06:25 PM   #80
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I actually read throught this whole thread while waiting on a phone call.

Shroom - Amazing knowldege of religion threw a historical and agnostic perspective.

Krakken - Seeks more accurate knowledge of his fait.

Pun - Completely clueless and outclasses in this argument. Responses, are as usuall, one liners that don't respond to the questions/statements at hand.
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Old January 25th, 2005, 06:44 PM   #81
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...it's a good thread, I'll probably re-read it tomorrow.
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Old August 1st, 2017, 06:31 PM   #82
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[quote=Imashroom;936132]I admire your honesty and courage more than I can express in this little box. It's extremely difficult to be able to look at one's long-held deep-seated underlying fundamental beliefs and accept that they need to be challenged. The difficulty is exponentially greater when one does so and finds that one believes as a result that it is best to then actually go ahead and revise those beliefs. I don't think others can truly appreciate what you have done, unless they have done it themselves. I can, because I have undergone a similar process in changing fervently held mental models more than once in my life. [I may be going through such a process right now with my beliefs on abortion.] My sincerest congratulations.
Not to discourage you, but what you will find, if you explore thoroughly, is there is no "original" Greek (or Hebrew). There is no one unique Greek or Hebrew text. There are just Greek and Hebrew sources -- many of them -- and they often contradict themselves. Each translator had to choose which of these to translate from, before even deciding what the translation was.

I suggest you not only look at those texts, but the history of why they were included in the Bible, and why others were excluded. You will probably conclude that there were texts that were never consolidated into the "Bible," that have as much "historical" claim to being Christian "scripture" as those that were (e.g., the beautifully written The Gospel of Thomas). It may even surprise you to learn that some deeply religious scholars (such as Aquinas) who argued for the inclusion of Revelation, did so only if it were recognized as not being literally "true"! [Revelation is probably a coded attack on the Roman Empire, with the seven-headed dragon representing the seven hills of Rome.]
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In the meantime, here lies my most sincere apology. I apologize for all the times I made you the target of my vitriol, as you were only trying to tell me the story as you know it, which as it turns out, is quite a bit closer to the truth than I previously believed, or was willing to accept.[/Qupte]No apology needed. You did what most of us do -- defend vehemently what we believe deep inside, because we view our beliefs as our selves -- our fundamental identities. When we can learn to separate the two -- our beliefs and our selves -- both improve, and real learning can occur.
As I've said before, it's not what you believe that is critical, but why and how you got there. You're on a journey. You may not reach a final destination, but enjoy the trip. If you keep the window to your mind open, you'll get a lot of fresh clean air. You won't have to break many glass houses either.
By the way, I'm still on this journey.
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Old August 2nd, 2017, 11:58 PM   #83
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By the way, I'm still on this journey.
The journey is the point, as they say.
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Old August 22nd, 2017, 02:32 AM   #84
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I'm wondering if you've just chucked it all by now.
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