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DG February 19th, 2011 12:01 PM

Hooked On Retro
 
Since I finished my first game on the Wii's Virtual Console, it's been difficult to get back into modern games.

For example we got Little Big Planet 2 for Christmas and I've barely touched it because of the Donkey Kong Country SNES games. They're far more fun to play.

And Gears of War 2, I'd been wanting that one for a while, so I finally picked it up. Yes, I did finish it and it was great, but modern games seem like the Chinese food cliche:

An hour after finishing one you're hungry again.

Modern games seem more like interactive movies than video games. They're very entertaining spectacles, but they seem to fly past. Retro games force you to play them over and over again, learning every detail, honing your skills until by the end you're pulling off moves you'd think were impossible when you started the game. Learning a tough retro game feels like learning to play a musical instrument.

I know there's a different way to modern games like Gears of War 2. You sit there for hours playing Cops 'n' Robbers online on the same handful of maps until you know every last pixel. The difference is I don't feel any progression, the only reward for memorizing a map is a score. In retro games your reward is getting further in the game, (unless you're talking REALLY retro like the original Donkey Kong, then your reward is just a score).

Aside from the occasional blockbuster like GOW, the 360 and PS3 are mostly used for smaller downloadable games, and most of those pale in comparison to the classics from the 80's and 90's.

Overkill February 19th, 2011 12:24 PM

I've been in that boat with you for about three years.

krazy February 19th, 2011 01:28 PM


Aeon Storm February 19th, 2011 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Overkill (Post 1518586)
I've been in that boat with you for about three years.

I've been in the same boat since the 32-bit generation, honestly. The percentage of modern games that hold my attention is so much lower than it was/is with retro titles.

Z_E_R_O February 19th, 2011 11:40 PM

One the point of a game becomes what you did with it when you were bored........

krazy February 21st, 2011 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon Storm (Post 1518654)
I've been in the same boat since the 32-bit generation, honestly. The percentage of modern games that hold my attention is so much lower than it was/is with retro titles.

I just don't get it. Games are better then ever.


You ever wonder when you were younger why you grandfather still lived like it was the year when he was younger ? You ever think to yourself "why didn't he change with the times ?"

That's what I think of when I hear a convo about how current games are boring.

Vid Gamer February 21st, 2011 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_E_R_O (Post 1518689)
One the point of a game becomes what you did with it when you were bored........

wut

.

Aeon Storm February 21st, 2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazy (Post 1518825)
I just don't get it. Games are better then ever.

That's a completely subjective, of course. I don't think that games (in general) are "better than ever", I think that there are many games today that are much better than the best of what there was back in the day, but I think the percentage of great games today is less than it was back then.

There are games from more recent generations like Ico, Rez, survival horror series like Silent Hill/Resident Evil/Fatal Frame ect., arcade racers like OutRun2006, and multiplayer games like Left4Dead, Resident Evil 5, Mario Kart: Wii, etc. that are some of the best games I've ever played. But there are far more games that don't hold my attention like many of the older games did/do.

Games from older generations, in addition to being a lot more charming than most of the games produced today, can be ended in a matter of minutes to a few hours, tops. I don't have to dedicate 20 hours plus to get the complete experience, which sucks if I'm not that into it, which is the case with most modern games. If it's not going to keep my interested the whole way through I'd rather it be short and sweet.

Quote:

You ever wonder when you were younger why you grandfather still lived like it was the year when he was younger ? You ever think to yourself "why didn't he change with the times ?"
No, I never thought that once, actually. He watched the same television shows that we did, he ate at the same places, owned modern appliances and and he drove a relatively modern car. None of those things were even around when my grandfather was younger.

I won't speak for Overkill, or DG, but I enjoy modern games a lot, just not as much as the next guy, because I have very specific taste and expectations for games than modern gamers do.

In general I don't like 'open world' type game play, for example, because I don't like the feeling that there's not a structured, cohesive story that's playing out. It makes the experience feel less 'cinematic' to me, for lack of a better word, like a 'chose your own adventure', or a 'Mad-libs' book. Just wandering around with all of the time in the world and no penalty for doing other things, or nothing (or taking forever), bores me. I like there to be a sense of urgency in games, and that's lacking in most of the modern games released today.

I don't like hyper realism in a games either, because I like the fantasy element and escapism that games offer. That's the main reason I play them. I don't enjoy anything about real world war, for example, and realistic depictions of it are both boring and off putting to me. While there are honorable, academic, and altruistic aspects of military service, and lessons to be learned from wartime events in the real world, none of that is present or relevant in video games depicting realistic warfare. It's striped down to a simple matter of killing other humans, realistically, with military efficiency, and gloating to your friends about it. I respect everything that goes into making these types of games, I just personally don't like the machismo and mob mentality inherent to the experience of playing tactical shooters, especially in groups. I'm really not drawn to the type of community that plays these sorts of games. I don't think it makes an appealing single player experience, either.

Now if you throw in some lasers, and aliens/monsters, and silly one-liners into the mix, well now, that's a different story, entirely (which is why I enjoyed HALO).

I feel the same way about sports, too; I think that they're boring as hell. In fact, I'd rather do 8 hours in solitary, making license plates, than 1 hour in a sports bar, during the Super Bowl, with hot Hooters girls serving drinks in their underwear. HOWEVER, if there were power-ups, and fire attacks, and shit like the stuff you see in Mario sports games in real life sports, shit, I'd probably be the biggest sports fan alive. I wouldn't actually play them, but I could watch my friends play a few games of Arch Rivals, NBA Jam, Cyberball, Mutant League, Double Dribble, High Impact, Street Football, (which I actually did play a few times), etc.. Even though I wasn't a fan of the genre, those older quirky sports games had charm.

I also enjoy being scored in games, something that virtually no games do anymore. Being scored makes the experience seem more worthwhile to me, and motivates me to improve my skills and play through a game several times. I still enjoy puzzle games as much as I did back in the day. They're one of the few genres where score is still implemented.

I've always favored style over depth of game play, too, which is why I still enjoy Japanese games (which are in the minority in the U.S. now) more than Western ones (someone who's a fan of Dragon Ball Z should understand my position on style versus substance. :p)

Ideally I'd like a balance of both, style and substance, but games are almost never that way, and I'd definitely lean towards the more stylistic, over-the-top offerings of games like say, Jet Set Radio, than anything with Tony Hawk in the title. Most of the games on the market were Japanese back in the day, which is one of the reasons I was so impressed with the industry back then. Enemies waving little white flags when you beat them, bad Engrish, the silly little Anime sweat tear when a character takes damage or is hurt, breaking the forth wall, hyper blood spatter, dramatic stills before dying, continue screen animations, fan service, etc..

I don't care how unrealistic it is for a 10,000 year old transgendered swordsman, wearing long flowing silk robes (that never get dirty, or torn, while fighting in dank dungeons), to slice a monster to bits, gracefully, in the air, or how unvaried the button combinations are for you to pull off successful attacks off when hacking your way through a crowd of Chinese warriors from the Ming dynasty, or having your Ferrari flip through the air, twice, in slow motion, and land perfectly on all four tires, with no damage to it or your girlfriend incurred after a collision with billboard at 100 mph. I just want it to look awesome when it happens, and for the music to be catchy, too.

I like when I shoot an enemy soldier and they turn into a goofy dancing skeleton for a second before they disappear (Commando), or zapping a mobster with a light gun and having his spirit fly away, and then shooting his actual angel down out of the sky a second later (Gangster Town), and boss battle that consists entirely of winning two rounds of Rock, Paper, Scissors (Alex Kidd in Miracle World). There's not a lot of that sort of thing in modern games anymore, especially not Western ones.

Madden, Gran Turismo, Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, Gran Theft Auto, these types of games are the industry standard now, and I think that they're boring.

Quote:

That's what I think of when I hear a convo about how current games are boring.
Do you feel that way when people say the same thing about driving a automatic transmission? I know it's probably a strange unrelated question, but I also hear people say that when they talk about automatic transmissions (on sports cars). I think of automatic transmissions as more 'modern technology', sort of like you way you do about modern game consoles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GearHed 66
But that's different; you have much more control over the vehicle with a manual transmission. It's the way a high performance vehicle is meant to be driven!

Yeah, I feel the exact same way about the control scheme in Resident Evil and older survival horror games which give you greater range of control over your character than modern 2D 'point and go' control schemes do.

^Just a little side rant there.

krazy February 21st, 2011 05:17 PM

Man, you wrote a lot :D


I don't like open world games either. In fact I like my hand being held because I feel it tells the story better. But their is still a ton of games and series that that are not what is considered the "norm" Granted there isn't a lot the style games that mention above "urn into a goofy dancing skeleton for a second before they disappear (Commando), or zapping a mobster with a light gun and having his spirit fly away, and then shooting his actual angel down out of the sky a second later (Gangster Town), and boss battle that consists entirely of winning two rounds of Rock, Paper, Scissors (Alex Kidd in Miracle World)" but there are plenty of games that are just as creative in different ways.

Like you said if I were to take my Favorite game this gen against my favorite game in the SNES era there is no contest.

I'm just trying to point out that their are still plenty of games for everyone and I find current gaming due to better technology provides a greater immersive experience than the 16 bit era.

Granted out of all the video game era's, the 16 bit is the one I think has aged the best.

I understand where your coming from a little better. However, I still think there is plenty to discover.

I honestly mistook your post for having the same opinion as Rob does in thread about being done with video games.

Viper February 21st, 2011 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon Storm (Post 1518904)
I feel the same way about sports, too; I think that they're boring as hell. In fact, I'd rather do 8 hours in solitary, making license plates, than 1 hour in a sports bar, during the Super Bowl, with hot Hooters girls serving drinks in their underwear. HOWEVER, if there were power-ups, and fire attacks, and shit like the stuff you see in Mario sports games in real life sports, shit, I'd probably be the biggest sports fan alive. I wouldn't actually play them, but I could watch my friends play a few games of Arch Rivals, NBA Jam, Cyberball, Mutant League, Double Dribble, High Impact, Street Football, (which I actually did play a few times), etc.. Even though I wasn't a fan of the genre, those older quirky sports games had charm.

It may have charm, but I don't think Double Dribble really fits in with the other games there in that list:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v-PUj1H52ko

It's designed to be a 5 on 5 simulation basketball game. No powerups or any of that fun stuff.

Z_E_R_O February 21st, 2011 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vid Gamer (Post 1518852)
wut

.

Once the main idea of a game became what we did to games when we were bored, it lost interest. Think about it.

krazy February 21st, 2011 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_E_R_O (Post 1518935)
Once the main idea of a game became what we did to games when we were bored, it lost interest. Think about it.

I think he's talking about masturbating.....

Aeon Storm February 21st, 2011 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krazy (Post 1518926)
I'm just trying to point out that their are still plenty of games for everyone and I find current gaming due to better technology provides a greater immersive experience than the 16 bit era.

Granted out of all the video game era's, the 16 bit is the one I think has aged the best.

Yeah, I really feel that way as well about the 16-bit era. I think the that stuff that's out now will age pretty well though. At least the stuff that I'm into anyway, because again, I enjoy the more stylized games. It's tough to deal with the blocky, pixelated graphics of the 32-bit generation, but I always felt that way, even when it was new. Unlike Rob, I don't play much stuff older than 8-bit era (does he actually play that stuff, or just collect it?), and the few games that I do, I still don't consider any of it among the best (well, there are only a handful of exceptions).

Quote:

I understand where your coming from a little better. However, I still think there is plenty to discover.
I agree. I just don't get as excited about as many games as I did back in the day, because there are so few per capita that really appeal to me like back in the day. I don't really care for 3D platformers at all; there are very few exceptions. They just don't make arcade style shooters, or run and gun type games anymore, either, besides what's released on Live! Arcade, PSN and Wii ware, and those were some of my favorites genres.

The really 'good' modern games are really, REALLY good. But the older stuff that was 'good' back in the day is just so fucking re-playable now.

Quote:

I honestly mistook your post for having the same opinion as Rob does in thread about being done with video games.
God no; that was madness! Silent Hill 2 was so fucking immersive that I had nightmares for weeks. Granted, Doom and Centipede games my nightmares as well, but not repeating ones.

I think that games are more immersive now than ever before, and they'll only get more so as we go along. Which is another reason that modern games have the potential to bore me like never before. There are people who play games like The Sims and spend hours doing mundane things that they wouldn't even do in real life, or doing things that they WOULD do in real life, virtually, when they could be putting some monster to the sword, or saving a princess or something instead.

Immersion is only good if it's something that's exciting, or deep, or exhilarating or profound. Escort missions, pointless side quests that don't advance the story any, fishing for Tri-Force pieces that appear randomly (as fgarriel described, I've never played The Wind Waker that far), none of this seems fun to me. I can do boring shit in real life, and get some exercise in the process.

I'm not really sure where Overkill was coming from with that whole being immersed in Channel F and Astrocade games bit. Maybe it's because he has to use his imagination so much with those games, I don't know. You can barely tell what's supposed to be going on onscreen most of the time after all.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Viper (Post 1518927)
It may have charm, but I don't think Double Dribble really fits in with the other games there in that list:

It's designed to be a 5 on 5 simulation basketball game. No powerups or any of that fun stuff.

I never saw the console port of the game; I was only speaking of the arcade version. The whole appeal (besides the terrible voices and sound effects) was the way that the game would cut to a little FMV cut scene when a player would go in for a slam dunk. All of the guys in the convenience store that the game was in would go "Oooooowwwww!" and hilarity would ensue when they started flexing if they made it, as if they could even control whether the player made the point or not (sometimes the player would miss).

It was also pretty damn funny when a black guy would go up for the dunk, and they'd cut to a white guy slamming the ball.

Viper February 21st, 2011 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon Storm (Post 1518964)
I never saw the console port of the game; I was only speaking of the arcade version. The whole appeal (besides the terrible voices and sound effects) was the way that the game would cut to a little FMV cut scene when a player would go in for a slam dunk. All of the guys in the convenience store that the game was in would go "Oooooowwwww!" and hilarity would ensue when they started flexing if they made it, as if they could even control whether the player made the point or not (sometimes the player would miss).

It was also pretty damn funny when a black guy would go up for the dunk, and they'd cut to a white guy slamming the ball.

Yeah, the NES version had similar cutscenes (which were rarely seen on the NES, so at first it was like "ooooOoOooooh"), but they were black and white, so not easy to tell if the player was black or white (though they did have wavy locks of hair [no racist]).

Arch Rivals/Run n' Gun are probably more entertaining basketball games for the time (to someone not that into sports).

Groo the Wanderer February 21st, 2011 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon Storm (Post 1518904)
Madden, Gran Turismo, Call of Duty, World of Warcraft, Gran Theft Auto, these types of games are the industry standard now, and I think that they're boring.

Sigged.

Overkill February 21st, 2011 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aeon Storm (Post 1518904)

I won't speak for Overkill...

Actually, you speak for me pretty well. Carry on.

Z_E_R_O February 23rd, 2011 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Z_E_R_O (Post 1518935)
Once the main idea of a game became what we did to games when we were bored, it lost interest. Think about it.

So what did you do with games once you had beaten them? You ran around and did the opposite. So then a game was made where you run around and do all the wrong stuff, but it's the way to play the game. Once you're bored with it, what's there to do?


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