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Groo the Wanderer August 17th, 2005 07:53 PM


Originally Posted by DG
Go lick a dog's ass until it bleeds if there are any dogs in your neighborhood that still have assholes left of course.

Uh oh, it's the forum nut rider! Watch out, or I'll put you on my ignore list, and then you'll really be in for it!


Originally Posted by Viper
Unless the video out port for the 360 is the same as the Xbox, DG is still going to have to buy an S-video cable if he prefers better video quality than what composite provides.

True, but what I was referring to specifically was this comment:


Oh but EVERYONE according to Microsoft will of course have an HDTV for the Xbox 360...
And, quite obviously, you can use composite video on a non-HDTV.

Null August 17th, 2005 08:22 PM


Originally Posted by Mooreberg
- Splitting games on whether or not they use HDD caching. Games have to now be designed for both people who have an HDD connected, and those who don't. That means even with an HDD out there, devs will still have to come up with ways to shorten loading times for those that don't have it.

its not about load times. its about all the advantages a HD brings, and some features, without making it required on games cant be done for people who dont have the HD. (which that hd is outragously priced. i could get a 200gb HD for $100, and they're selling a 20gb for 100? bull shit.)

The Krakken August 17th, 2005 09:17 PM


Originally Posted by lmhstalker
Your email has been deleted already, lol.


The Krakken August 17th, 2005 09:20 PM


Originally Posted by Ghost
Video games are no longer a poor mans entertainment.

Edit - I wont be buying this at launch either... I haven't bought a system at launch since 9-9-99

Rep issued for the flashback. I'm with you too. The last date I ever bougth a system at launch. I likely won't buy this one until spring 06 or whenever Halo 3 releases.

Rubikon August 17th, 2005 09:45 PM


Originally Posted by lmhstalker
But doesn't really make much sense but nevertheless, why shouldn't they try to make as much money as they can? Or better, why should they not try to keep the loss at a minimum?

They're still losing money on the current Xbox, who knows how much the 360 costs to make. I guaran-damn-tee it's a alot more than what they ever lost on the Xbox.

For $300 or $400, I think it's a bargain.

I want them to bleed for me. :)

I don't think $399 is a terrible price for what you get, it's just that they shouldn't have teased and outright lied with all that "be in the neighborhood" of the $300 price tag or "every" system will include a 20gig hard drive and wireless controller talk back at E3. Besides, the accessory pricing is just plain robbery.


I wont be buying this at launch either... I haven't bought a system at launch since 9-9-99
Last time I bought a system at launch too.

Shaolin August 17th, 2005 09:50 PM


Originally Posted by Groo the Wanderer
Uh oh, it's the forum nut rider! Watch out, or I'll put you on my ignore list, and then you'll really be in for it!


But I think DG has a point; I would bet that if enough people started cancelling their pre-orders and hitting MS with negative feedback, it *might* cause them to think twice about this.

Xeo August 17th, 2005 11:04 PM

I'm not happy... I'm not surprised... and I'm certainly still not changing my mind about buying it at launch...

So... HDTV... Surround System... XBOX360... Games...

yeah... that's like 3 checks... or a month and a half of paychecks... not including other shit I have to spend money on... this is going to be TOUGH... not liking the odds of meeting all my 360 launch goals...

Pahn August 18th, 2005 01:17 AM

The fact that you have Xbox 360 launch goals, while not surprising, is nonetheless rather disturbing.

I have a strict "keep my wife happy and my pets alive" goal/policy.

speKtor August 18th, 2005 02:51 AM

lol, watch Sony launch the PS3 at $299 now.

RookieCAF August 18th, 2005 04:02 AM


Originally Posted by Xeo
not liking the odds of meeting all my 360 launch goals...

Seriously, and you wonder why people give you shit.

Xeo August 18th, 2005 04:57 AM

those goals don't top the list of my life's priorities, but they are goals nonetheless... but you simple, thick headed motherfuckers wouldn't be able to figure that out on your own, would you? :rolleyes:

my "goal" is to get all of that shit I listed... apparently yours is to ride my jock and try and find fault where there's none, in my every post... perhaps it's your life that needs prioritizing, not mines... bump 'try and get to Xeo' a few teirs down... you might accomplish something...

ironlou August 18th, 2005 06:25 AM

Everyone is saying they were lied to......I'm trying to figure out at what point did MS announce a price? It was in the air that it would be a steep price. $400 for a console.....yea it's steep but as with all hobbies it's expensive. The PS3 is going to be the same price and everyone knows it, I cant remember when 2 systems differed in price at launch. MS is going to have the advantage because they will a 4-6 month head start on the PS3 and the revolution which means they can lower the price so people continue to buy the xbox. Remember when the xbox came out for $300....people were saying that it was too expensive etc.....we still went and bought it. I'll be getting it at launch, I put money aside after paying kids tuition, child support, truck payment the games we love to play and the price we pay for them.

coachcobbs August 18th, 2005 06:45 AM

im glad im not a hardcore gamer no more. i can wait 6 to 12 months for a price drop. if i was a hardcore gamer, i would buy it hands down.

The Krakken August 18th, 2005 07:27 AM


Originally Posted by coachcobbs
im glad im not a hardcore gamer no more. i can wait 6 to 12 months for a price drop. if i was a hardcore gamer, i would buy it hands down.

I'm with you. That shits not gonna work anymore. Ill wait, as I have more pressing shit on me now, like lenses and flashes for my camera, and a new camera body (Canon EOS 5D).

Shinobi128 August 18th, 2005 07:39 AM


Originally Posted by IGN
In order to enforce its new royalty/licensing program, Microsoft plans to institute a security feature in the Xbox 360 that would prevent the use of unlicensed peripherals with the next-generation console. According to the licensing agreement with Mad Katz, a third-party peripheral manufacturer will have to purchase a "Xenon Chip" (named after the Xbox 360's development codename) which will execute a protocol with the console that will confirm that the peripheral is an officially licensed product. Unlicensed products will not execute the protocol and thus be unable to work with the console.

The Krakken August 18th, 2005 08:08 AM


Originally Posted by Shinobi128

That will be broken.

Bigg Russ August 18th, 2005 08:26 AM


Originally Posted by The Krakken
That will be broken.

Word. Something will come out of Asia... ;)

coachcobbs August 18th, 2005 08:28 AM

the only thing i hate about this is, not a lot of games will use the hd. so when a price drop happen i can buy a 360 with out a hd. i can get a hd like 3 years after the launch.

Bigg Russ August 18th, 2005 08:46 AM


Originally Posted by coachcobbs
I can get a hd like 3 years after the launch.

Or I could sell you a used one that I have 1 day after launch. :D

coachcobbs August 18th, 2005 08:49 AM

i will take it for 10 bucks and i will pay s/h ;)

Mooreberg August 18th, 2005 09:23 AM

I also have a strict "Keep Pahn's wife happy" policy. :) No deal on the pets though.

Symytry August 18th, 2005 09:26 AM


Originally Posted by Pahn
Memory cards were never $40. Possibly $35, but at launch, you could buy a Sony licensed Mad Catz for $30 or less.

I tried the Mad Catz memory cards once. That was a huge mistake. My brother and I ended up having to play through the first 20 hours of FF VII not once, not twice, but three times. Not surprisingly, that memory card suffered the hammer. Never again will I buy anything except for first party, the other shit is cheaper for a reason.

fgarriel August 18th, 2005 09:36 AM


Originally Posted by Xeo
I'm not happy... I'm not surprised... and I'm certainly still not changing my mind about buying it at launch...

So... HDTV... Surround System... XBOX360... Games...

yeah... that's like 3 checks... or a month and a half of paychecks... not including other shit I have to spend money on... this is going to be TOUGH... not liking the odds of meeting all my 360 launch goals...

... which is about how many dead cats?

Xeo August 18th, 2005 09:41 AM


Originally Posted by fgarriel
... which is about how many dead cats?

approximately 3.33 repeating of course...

no word on how many happy Pahn's wifes that would be...

Mooreberg August 18th, 2005 09:58 AM

Industry reaction:


Developers and Publishers

Lyle Hall
Studio director
Heavy Iron Studios

"From a developer and publisher perspective, it makes no difference
to us today in how we build our games for Xbox360 because Microsoft has
instructed us in advance to assume no hard drive from a technical
requirements standpoint.

"Longterm, it could limit some of the console's technical potential if you have a fairly fractured audience from launch. However, that is always adjustable by the right absolute must-have game coming out that requires the hard disk. For the retailers, its initial consumer appeal to the casual gaming audience is more limited than last time because the Xbox360 does not offer any new mass market product
innovation like the previous console did in supporting DVD movie

Scott Miller
3D Realms

"One word: Blunder. Developers will almost always cater to the lowest spec'ed system when it comes to consoles, so as to maximize the customer base. So, my guess is that few games will truly make significant use of the hard drive, given that it's an option that cannot be counted on."

David Perry
Shiny Entertainment

"I've personally always been a big fan of being able to upgrade stuff I own. It's like adding a 2GB memory stick to your PSP, when some people are happy with the poopy 32MB card that comes with it, I'm not. It's like buying a car with an optional GPS built in or not. I hate not having the choice. Choice is your friend. I've been pushing for it for years on the consoles. I even had a friend that once built a prototype console, into which you could add as many processors as you could afford.

"The PC model is the example, giving gamers the experience they are happy to pay for. Xbox 360 actually beats the PC as there's a common high-quality 3D baseline, so you can only go upwards. I hope Microsoft enjoys the experience from this strategy and truly opens up the model for Xbox 720. Meaning if I choose to add extra features or enhance features, I can do that. (Faster hard drives, more texture memory, physics chips etc.) Fingers crossed.

Mark Rein
Epic Games

"I think it's a very good strategy given the potential competitive landscape. They get a lower priced version for people who are more cost-conscious and an everything-you-need-for-online-gaming version for those who want the full experience. Developers were always told not to expect a hard drive on every machine so nobody has developed with the assumption it will be there.

"Developers already got our big Xbox 360 gift - we got 512MB of RAM. That was a huge win for developers and customers alike and there was no way we were going to get that and a hard drive on every machine. The RAM is more important and will make a bigger difference than the hard drive would have. There will be lots of great reasons why you'd want to buy the hard drive and it will be available as an upgrade so nobody is selling themselves short if they can't afford the all-options version because they can buy those options a-la-carte (for more money mind you) if needed.

CS Weaver
Bethesda Softworks
Also Visiting Scholar at M.I.T

"The idea of selling a $299 'basic' (read crippled) version of the new Xbox may make for minor bragging rights and a little press, but it is akin to buying a Ferrari F430 only to find that while the car is beautiful and has a powerful engine, the model you bought lacks a transmission capable of getting out of first gear. You may be able to rev the deep-throated engine and impress the neighbors, but in truth, you will barely be able to get out of the garage.

"This is one of those silly market concepts dreamed up by a middle-aged, non-gamer who once worked at Proctor and Gamble. To him or her I say, 'Stick to Tide and Pringles.'

"With the original Xbox, I admired Microsoft for having the imagination to incorporate an Ethernet connector. Even though they got the initial timing wrong, it was a leap of faith by a major player who showed the industry they were willing to back a vision. The current play of $299 for a box that is inadequate in order to have bragging rights over Sony is as bad an idea as the RJ45 connector was a good one.

"So, listen up Microsoft - never disrespect your audience. We will understand if you tell us that you cannot match PS3 in price because of the different approach you have taken in order to achieve a better end result. But do NOT confuse the retail chain with a near worthless SKU and try to pull one over on your public for the right to play shell games with price when the PS3 is released next year.

"That is a recipe for more bad word of mouth than any 'under $300' price will ever achieve in the hearts and minds of your customers. It takes fourteen positive impressions to register “awareness” with a consumer. It takes but one negative impression to wipe it out. I figure with your initial leap of faith added to this latest stupid pet trick, you’re just about even…

Doug Hare
VP of product development
The Collective

"From a developer perspective, I don't see [Microsoft's decision] having much of an impact other than that most, if not all, games will be developed to function perfectly well without any reliance on a hard drive. If it gets the platform into the hands of more consumers then it surely must be a good thing for the industry."

Jon Middleton
VP business development
Mad Catz

"It’s nice to see that Microsoft brought some creative pricing to their launch strategy. Offering a premium pack complete with all the bells and whistles is great for early adopters, but the addition of an 'a la carte' approach to a next-gen console release may lead to quicker adoption by the mass gaming community.

"This move should help ease the cost impact and allow retailers to offer a wider array of possible hardware bundles. It will certainly help drive sales for Microsoft’s third party peripheral partners."


Mike Sabine
Market analyst
International Development Group

"I think the dual-SKU option with one being $299 lets Microsoft reach a more cost-conscious consumer – a consumer that will still need to spend $60 to $120 buying one or two games and likely another $40 or $50 on a spare controller. Some day when the premium SKU is $299, the core SKU could be $199, which may also assist Microsoft in penetrating more nascent gaming markets such as Central & Eastern Europe and Latin America.

"However, the core SKU may cause some consumer confusion and forces the consumer to buy a $40 memory card to save games whereas the $399 buyer has the hard drive for game saves. Developers have known for a while to not depend on a hard drive being available in every Xbox 360 sold so they have dealt with the technology issue. Having two SKUs on shelves at retail is also a method to command shelf space."

David Cole
Chief analyst
DFC Intelligence

"Something that gives consumers more options is generally good as long as it doesn’t confuse them. Of course, it is a new paradigm so there is the potential for confusion. The main issue is that the basic system be able to play all the games just as well as the deluxe system. The hard drive is mainly used as a big memory card, but it will become a crucial feature for online gamers.

"The confusion issue will become more of a problem after the system has been on the market for a year and you move from core gamers to more of the mass market. I think most of the early adopters will tend to go for the high-end, my bet would be 2/3 to 1/3 in the first year, but of course that may depend on how many units of each are manufactured. Microsoft can choose to 'steer' consumers in a certain direction by what they manufacture.

"For Sony, the Xbox 360 system will provide them with a test of how consumers react. Being second has its advantage in that you can see what comes before and adjust your strategy as need be."

Michael Pachter
Wedbush Morgan Securities

"I think the pricing strategy is correct, and I think that Microsoft will maximize
revenue without gouging customers while maintaining flexibility to cut price
at PS3 launch.

"I don't think many people will buy the $299 box, since value of the other option is so high. It's a PR play, so Microsoft can claim they launched lower than Sony."
They should have had a "released a game in the last nine years" requirement that would have kept 3D Realms employees from commenting.

There's quotes from magazine editors too but posts can only be 10,000 characters. :tard:

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