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NiGHTS_01
July 15th, 2001, 04:09 PM
This quote from an Edge magazine with Shigeru Miyamoto perfectly sums up Nintendo's philosophy. Yes, they aim at a different market than Sony and Microsoft, but that market is a GENERAL one instead of the teen and 20-something market. They make games for everyone instead of trying to limit themselves to one demographic:

Lamentably, few other publishers feel the same way. Also regrettable is the competition’s continually erroneous labelling of Nintendo as a children’s games creator, which seems to stem from a fundamental misunderstanding of NCL’s work. Interestingly, however, Miyamoto-san has a historical explanation: “When Nintendo was selling the Famicom, or NES, it was kind of intentionally allowing thirdparties to develop the sports games, for example. In other words, Nintendo was hesitant in making good sports games—firstparty sports games. Afterwards, there was a kind of gap we could not fill ourselves. But on the other hand, as it has turned out, we now have some specific game genres which others cannot make properly.

“When it comes to the GameCube, a lot of the thirdparties are going to provide the variety of game genres once again, so in that sense I think we can be relieved. But it’s true that [NCL president] Mr. [Hiroshi] Yamauchi kind of hates for Nintendo to be called the toy for elementary school children—that’s one thing Mr. Yamauchi hates to hear. As a matter of fact, we’ve never made a Mario game for schoolchildren. It is true that these schoolchildren are playing a central role as core Nintendo users, but we will always make efforts to widen the audience. Having said that, this doesn't mean we're going to make 20-something-specific games. Rather, our aim is to make games which can appeal to small children as well as the parents, so that they can play together."

So, what it comes down to is this: Yes, kids buy and play Nintendo games, but kids are far from being their only audience. It's the ignorant people who believe that Nintendo games are only for kids that are giving Nintendo an undeserved image.

RaVeN69
July 15th, 2001, 05:47 PM
Hey, I'm not ashamed to say that me and my best friend (in our early twenties) rented Pokemon Stadium for N64 and played it on a big screen tv. I'm not even going to get into the memories of 4 of us playing Mario Marty 1 and 2 late into the night.

Games aren't always about blood and gore to be interesting. It's overall gameplay that sells the game, not graphics alone.

natdaddy
July 15th, 2001, 06:08 PM
besides whats wrong with having the majority of the games rated E? i see no problem with that.....quality games are quality games!

Blade
July 15th, 2001, 06:08 PM
I consider Nintendo to be a family-oriented video game company. Everybody old & young plays games that made by Nintendo such as:

Pokemon Stadium (1 or 2)
Mario Party (1, 2, or 3)
F-Zero X or F-Zero (SNES)
Super Smash Bros.

Your never too old to play any video games that are made by Nintendo, Sega, or Sony.

andyman211
July 16th, 2001, 07:55 PM
I am glad to see the GBA and GC. Nintendo is "old faithful." Me liking classic games so much, I can say I'm in my 20's, and have an important job, make ok money (salary) watch CNN, etc. I view myself as fairly intelligent. So Nintendo really isn't just for kids. Right on, Nights 1!!

SAiNT-X
July 16th, 2001, 08:53 PM
Nights01, perhaps its not their "only" audience but I think that kids are their target audience. Look at this picture.

Image of Cube (http://www.geocities.com/philwalker83/openblue.jpg)

It says it all really.

twEAkz
July 16th, 2001, 08:54 PM
we now have some specific game genres which others cannot make properly.

What ones are these? This is a full of shyte statement.

“When it comes to the GameCube, a lot of the thirdparties are going to provide the variety of game genres once again,


When he says once again does he mean N64 or Supernes? Cause N64 didnt have much 3rd party support.

JDGAFFLIN
July 16th, 2001, 09:00 PM
Originally posted by twEAkz
we now have some specific game genres which others cannot make properly.

What ones are these? This is a full of shyte statement.

The "Kiddie" game genre.

“When it comes to the GameCube, a lot of the thirdparties are going to provide the variety of game genres once again,

When he says once again does he mean N64 or Supernes? Cause N64 didnt have much 3rd party support.

How about none at all? Cartridges, did they really expect companies to devolope for it?? N64 was a waste of my money. Im ashamed to admit I even bought the piece of junk.

NiGHTS_01
July 16th, 2001, 09:45 PM
Originally posted by twEAkz
we now have some specific game genres which others cannot make properly.

What ones are these? This is a full of shyte statement.

Off the top of my head: 3D platformers, kart racing, and party games.

“When it comes to the GameCube, a lot of the thirdparties are going to provide the variety of game genres once again,


When he says once again does he mean N64 or Supernes? Cause N64 didnt have much 3rd party support.

If you had read the whole quote, you would have realized that he was referring back to the NES.

Nights01, perhaps its not their "only" audience but I think that kids are their target audience. Look at this picture.

Image of Cube

It says it all really.

The console itself was undeniably designed for the Japanese market, where they like kitchy designs like that. Personally, I couldn't care less what the system itself looks like, I just care about what's on the screen, and how the controller feels in my hands. Why anyone else would feel otherwise is beyond me.

st_trooper
July 16th, 2001, 11:03 PM
Originally posted by twEAkz
we now have some specific game genres which others cannot make properly.
What ones are these? This is a full of shyte statement.



The 3D adventure genre. Do not say Sonic Adventure because it's nothing like Mario 64, BK, Donkey Kong 64, etc.

Party Games like Mario Party. Again Sonic Shuffle sucked.

Single-Play First Person Shooters that actually have a story and can still be used with a controller.

necrolust
July 17th, 2001, 12:14 AM
Originally posted by st_trooper


The 3D adventure genre. Do not say Sonic Adventure because it's nothing like Mario 64, BK, Donkey Kong 64, etc.

A genre that was sorely missed on the Dreamcast:(:(:(:(:(

Don't get me wrong SA is alright, but like troop said it's no Mario 64, gets boring after about 5 hrs.

slimray
July 17th, 2001, 04:00 AM
i don't like Nintendo..i won't say kiddie, but the games just aren't for me. they lack the important (again, for me) genre of RPGs. Yamouchi even said that RPGs were not important. 2nd handedly bashed Square games by saying the importance is on graphics and FMVs (pure bs since the games are roughly 50+ hrs long with about 1 hr of FMV). For myself, i can't stand platformers..the Mario's, the Sonics, etc... there are few i can stand like Legacy of Kain: Blood omen and Soul Reaver, but for the most part, i don't like them. The games on PS2 are more diverse in genres than Nintendo consoles, there's something for everyone..just like how Xbox are releasing games for everyone. there's no specific audience for them..if you want a platformer..it's there. you want an rpg, it's there. you want a kiddie game..it's there. you think just because of a new console, there will be new habits. Nintendo is still the same hard azzes that they have always been with high licensing fees, delayed games, lack of genres, etc..etc...etc... nothing has changed; new console doesn't equal new ideals..it's the same old company. IMO, it's not worth $200 with the games coming out on GC.

YoungFan
July 17th, 2001, 05:07 AM
have any of you played Conkers Bad Fur Day for the N64 this game is the sh!t. i mean one of the funniest games of all time.

andyman211
July 17th, 2001, 06:57 AM
If they develop generes based on the NES, GC should be a hit. I agree that N64 wasn't what it was cracked up to be. They can now take advantage of 3-d's, etc. It will be interesting.

SAiNT-X
July 17th, 2001, 01:15 PM
Nights01, answer these questions:

Will Nintendo have a strong RPG lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong racer lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong sports lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong 2D fighter lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong 3D fighter lineup?

For the simple fact that the answer to these questions are "NO" I would classify their target audience as kids.

Blade
July 17th, 2001, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by YoungFan
have any of you played Conkers Bad Fur Day for the N64 this game is the sh!t. i mean one of the funniest games of all time.

I rent the game Conkers Bad Fur Day at Blockbuster several months back. Playing that game was awesome, and It is one of the funniest, sickest, and crudest video game I've ever played. I'm glad Nintendo and Rare did release the game despite of it's poor sales.

natdaddy
July 17th, 2001, 03:34 PM
it had poor sales cause it was aiming for an adult audience....i never saw an ad of it in any game magazine.........and there arnt that many adults that play 64.....and i like how people talk big about the system before it comes out......like my friend who was sayin ps2 was gonna take everything out the day i comes out and how its gonna be the best system ever created......we all saw what happened.....

twEAkz
July 17th, 2001, 04:07 PM
Originally posted by natdaddy
and i like how people talk big about the system before it comes out......like my friend who was sayin ps2 was gonna take everything out the day i comes out and how its gonna be the best system ever created......we all saw what happened.....


Not That I disagree with you, But I have friends and no plenty of ppl who think PS2 is the greatest thing they ever played. Also, it has taken everything out. Notice, DC is dead, N64 has been dead. Ps2= King of consoles right at this moment and will prolly stay that way at least untill Xmas 2002.


Hype Sells.

NiGHTS_01
July 17th, 2001, 07:37 PM
Originally posted by SAiNT-X
Nights01, answer these questions:

Will Nintendo have a strong RPG lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong racer lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong sports lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong 2D fighter lineup?

Will Nintendo have a strong 3D fighter lineup?

For the simple fact that the answer to these questions are "NO" I would classify their target audience as kids.


The problem with immediately writing off these genres on the GameCube is that most third parties simply haven't revealed their support for the system yet, just as Xbox supporters are clinging to the "It's not on final hardware yet!" argument. Since only first party games have been in the spotlight since E3, we won't be getting much info about these genres until third parties reveal their hands in August at SpaceWorld. So, I can really only give general answers right now:

1. Maybe. Camelot (known for the Shining series on the Saturn) is already confirmed to be working with Nintendo on a secret RPG. If you consider action/rpgs then there's both Raven Blade and Zelda too. Additionally, Both Enix (Dragon Warrior) and Square (Final Fantasy) are considering GC development. Enix is already a Game Boy developer, so nothing's stopping them from hopping on board the GameCube. Square WANTS to develop for the GC, but their history isn't exactly strong with Nintendo, and Yamauchi may not allow them to come on board. So, at this point I would say the GC's RPG prospects are bright, but there's nothing definite yet.

2. What system WON'T? There's a strong rumor that Nintendo has one of their divisions working on a first party GT racer, and another that has Namco developing a brand new Ridge Racer for the system. Racers are something that are a dime a dozen these days, though, so there won't be a shortage of them on any system. If you like "alternative" racers, though, Extreme-G 3, Mario Kart, SSX Tricky, 1080 2, and Donkey Kong Racing have already been confirmed.

3. Absolutely. EA Sports, Sega, Acclaim, and Midway are all developing sports titles, not to mention Left Field Productions, Nintendo's first party division. So, the GC is getting the entire EA and Visual Concepts 2k3 lineup, plus Midway's extreme sports lineup and Acclaim's supercross and BMX titles (not to mention their yearly sports titles). Sports is one area where the GameCube is definitely set, unlike the N64.

4. Yep. Capcom is developing for the system, and that's what really matters when it comes to 2D fighters.

5. Yep. Namco is on board, so 3D fighters from them would be a no-brainer. They've already confirmed that they're working on at least one. (Latest rumors peg both Soul Calibur 2 and Tekken 4 for the system.) Additionally, since both Sega and Tecmo are GC developers, we could see something from them.

The problem is that people are basing their entire opinion of the GameCube on the first party games, without taking third parties into account. This is understandable, though, considering how quiet they have all been. So, basically, just don't count them out before we know all the facts.

Overkill
July 18th, 2001, 12:38 AM
Hmm... Nintendo's holiday lineup isn't looking good compaired to any of the other consoles, including Dreamcast.

NiGHTS_01
July 18th, 2001, 12:49 AM
Games currently set for a 2001 release:

At Launch:
Super Smash Bros. Melee Nintendo 11/05/01 $49.95
Luigi's Mansion Nintendo 11/05/01 $49.95
Star Fox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet Nintendo 11/05/01 $49.95
Wave Race: Blue Storm Nintendo 11/05/01 $49.95
NBA Courtside 2002 Nintendo 11/05/01 $49.95
Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron 2 LucasArts 11/05/01 $49.95
Super Monkey Ball Sega 11/05/01 $49.95
Madden NFL 2002 EA 11/05/01 $49.95
Dave Mirra Freestyle BMX 2 Acclaim 11/05/01 $49.95
Extreme-G 3 Acclaim 11/05/01 $49.95
All-Star Baseball 2002 Acclaim 11/05/01 $49.95
NFL Quarterback Club 2002 Acclaim 11/05/01 $49.95
NFL Blitz 2002 Midway 11/05/01 $49.95
NHL Hitz 2002 Midway 11/05/01 $49.95
Batman Dark Tomorrow Kemco 11/05/01 $49.95
Universal Studios Kemco 11/05/01 $49.95

November/December Titles so far:
Pikmin Nintendo December 2001 $49.95
Eternal Darkness Nintendo December 2001 $49.95
SSX Tricky EA 11/15/01 $49.95
Crazy Taxi Acclaim 11/15/01 $49.95
Phantasy Star Online Version 2 Sega 12/15/01 $49.95
Resident Evil 0 Capcom November / December $49.95


Personally, I think this lineup looks great. There are nine games there that I want. As a comparison, I have a total of four PS2 games and ten Dreamcast games, so for me, nine games is a ton.

slimray
July 18th, 2001, 02:14 AM
my question is..what 9 games are you referring to? I mean, what games i like is different from others, but for myself there's not one game on there that says "Slim, buy this system." I would look at info on Retro Studios before you assume Ravenblade will even be released. i still think people are taking the N64 troubles too lightly when it pertains to their future console. if you don't believe that delayed games, shortage of genres, shortage of games released within a given time (per month), high priced games will not come back to haunt them; then the fundamentals of business are comepletely twisted in your mind. Say you buy a new game (new series) and you didn't like it; not what are the chances if that game makes a sequel that you will purchase it? If people didn't like the original PSX, then how likely would it be that those same people would buy a PS2? I highly doubt i'm the only one that was disappointed in the N64, and i doubt the people that were will not take that into consideration when deciding which console to buy this fall.

st_trooper
July 18th, 2001, 04:05 AM
Originally posted by RobV
Hmm... Nintendo's holiday lineup isn't looking good compaired to any of the other consoles, including Dreamcast.

You keep saying this (I do agree that the GC is launch is nothing more than lackluster) but the Xbox's Christmas isn't looking to good to me either. All those games you mentioned in another either suck (ie. Halo, DOA3, Gunvalkie, etc) or are coming out on other consoles.

slimray
July 18th, 2001, 06:13 AM
1) lil piece of mind from MGS designer (da man) Hideo Kojima (if you want to see this, go to http://cube.ign.com and it's under Q&A 6-27-01)

"when i pick hardware to do a game, i don't look at the specs of the machine. i don't really care about that stuff. i don't care about how good the system is because all consoles right now are at about the same level of power. i look at the audience that it has. releasing a Metal Gear game on a Nintendo console would be ridiculous. I don't know about Gamecube, but [their] machines [up until now] have been for younger kids."

not only do fans label Nintendo, but also game developers/designers. that's why you don't see a MGS port or even a Silent Hill port..the ports are headed to Xbox. if a big cat like Kojima can comment like this, then what makes one think that other devs are not thinking in the same light of the topic of GC?

NiGHTS_01
July 18th, 2001, 04:08 PM
my question is..what 9 games are you referring to?

Wave Race: Blue Storm
Eternal Darkness
Pikmin
Star Fox Adventures: Dinosaur Planet
Star Wars Rogue Leader: Rogue Squadron 2
Resident Evil 0
Luigi's Mansion
Extreme-G 3
Phantasy Star Online Version 2


I've always been a big fan of Nintendo's style, so it wouldn't surprise me if other people don't want games like Pikmin or Star Fox Adventures. I just know the GameCube has games I'll like, while the Xbox has great potential, but doesn't have any games that appeal to me yet.


"when i pick hardware to do a game, i don't look at the specs of the machine. i don't really care about that stuff. i don't care about how good the system is because all consoles right now are at about the same level of power. i look at the audience that it has. releasing a Metal Gear game on a Nintendo console would be ridiculous. I don't know about Gamecube, but [their] machines [up until now] have been for younger kids."

It's quotes like this that I started this thread for. I'm not implying that everyone that knows what they're talking about doesn't think Nintendo is for kids. There are a LOT of people that think they are, but just because there's a lot of them, it doesn't mean they're right. For example, There's about a billion christians in the world, and about a billion hindus - at least one of those views is wrong, and maybe even both are, so at least a billion people (and maybe 2 billion) are dead wrong. So, just because a lot of people believe one thing doesn't mean it's right.

The point I'm trying to make is that YES, Nintendo's demographic IS different from the PS2 or the Xbox, but it's been mislabled. It's NOT "kids" it's "general." Games that come out on Nintendo's systems can be enjoyed by anyone. (Or should I say by anyone that's secure enough in their own image of themself to be able to look past light-hearted themes and play a game not labeled "cool" by their peers?)

natdaddy
July 18th, 2001, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by twEAkz

Ps2= King of consoles right at this moment and will probally stay that way at least untill Xmas 2002.
Hype Sells.

you may call it the "king of consoles" but for the time being its more like "king of mediocore consoles"

slimray
July 18th, 2001, 06:42 PM
nat, i'll ignore that since i doubt you've played 1)Twisted Metal Black, 2)NBA Street, 3)Gran Turismo 3, 4)Red Faction, or 5)Dark Cloud...these are just games i've played recently that's great. The console's so mediocre that it keeps on selling...hmmmm, stupid consumers i guess..:rolleyes:.

Nights, i'm not saying "they're too kiddie for me to play." I've read stuff on each and every game you listed and they're just not games i would buy. I'm different though...my way of choosing my first next-gen console was this...no Square = no slim..simple as that. Second, the games i was interested in are 1) Ravenblade and Metroid Prime..which Retro are receiving hell from Nintendo..so if Nintendo does not like the results so far; then that's a sign of poor developing or upcoming mediocre games. 2)Too Human, but it doesn't come out until, what, middle to fall 2002?

Also, i'm not saying that it is not for everyone, but Kojima's MGS2 is NOT for everyone however. He's simply saying "what market has the largest demographic of teens to young adults (the game's demographic)." that's simply PS2. That's how most developers decide on where to place their games. it's not something unheard of. simply put..GC does not have the larger demographic of teens to young adults that the PS2 has...hence why games like MGS2 doesn't come to GC. That's called business...distribute the product where it has the most potential to sell. PS2 has the teen/young adult demographic on lockdown, hence games like MGS2 coming to PS2.

natdaddy
July 18th, 2001, 07:42 PM
thats just a handful of titles......and they may have appealed to you but have they to the rest of the community?.....out of that list i know red faction gt3 and tmb are good....but nba street and dark cloud.....i dont know......dc showed more of a "king of consoles look" its 9 months.....the first 2 months it probably had 5 to 6 good system selling titles....this system has been pretty quiet for its first couple of months.....and about the no square no slim thing....so if square decides to stop making games.....whats gonna happen to you?

slimray
July 18th, 2001, 09:00 PM
hmmmm...if the never-gonna-happen happened and Square stopped making games, then there's Xenosaga, Suikoden 3, Wild Arms 3, Grandia X...all coming to...*dum da da da* PS2..:)

Overkill
July 18th, 2001, 11:44 PM
Nights>

A lot of those titles don't have confirmed dates, infact, Nintendo hasn't confirmed any of their first party titles at this time, though I'm sure they'll all show up before Xmas. All of Acclaim's titles droped off of the shipping lists last week before I made the update to the GameCube's ship dates list. I doubt that they were cancelled, but were likely delayed.

Confirmed GameCube titles and dates before Xmas:

10/15/01

Monkey Ball

10/30/01

NHL Hitz
Madden NFL 2002

11/5/01

Star Wars Rouge Squadron: Rouge Leader

12/4/01

NFL Blitz 2002

12/17/01

Phantasy Star Online

12/18/01

SSX Tricky

Don't get me wrong, their Febuary lineup shows some diversity.

I do not want to waste any space, but Dreamcast, Xbox, and especially PS2 have some big guns this Xmas.


Here are links:

GameCube: http://cube.dricasworld.com/?20010718b

Dreamcast: http://dc.dricasworld.com/?20010716a

Xbox: http://xbox.dricasworld.com/?20010718a

PS2: http://ps2.dricasworld.com/?20010627c

(I havn't updates the PS2 dates in a few weeks, they havn't changed much, and I'm waiting for something that's supposed to happen very soon.)

Now, on to st_Trooper....

You keep saying this (I do agree that the GC is launch is nothing more than lackluster) but the Xbox's Christmas isn't looking to good to me either. All those games you mentioned in another either suck (ie. Halo, DOA3, Gunvalkie, etc) or are coming out on other consoles.

Look, I know you hate Xbox and all, but I'm not talking about exclusive titles here. GameCube's two biggest Xmas titles, Madden and SSX, are not exclusive. Even some of PS2's big guns for Xmas, (Grandia II), are not exclusive. It is content that counts. Xbox does not have the best content available at launch, it will not have the best Xmas line up of games, but with

Halo, Gun Valkyre, DOA3, Oddworld, THPS 2X, Project Gotham Racing, Shrek, Star Wars: Obi-Wan, Nightcaster, WWF: Raw Is War, NHL 2002, Sega Sports NFL 2K2, and Madden NFL 2002,

It is looking to have the best well rounded fist holiday season that the industry has ever seen. Dreamcast had the best, N64 had the worst, Xbox is right up at the top in terms of games.

I don't like football, I don't like wrestling, and I don't like racing. So, games like PGR, Raw is War, and Madden don't appeal to me. However, those genres are some of the best selling ever. What does appeal to me are action/adventure games (Oddworld/Shrek/Nightcaster/Gun Valkyre), 3D Fighters (DOA3), and FPS games (Halo).


I know you don't like the Dead or Alive series, but to judge brilliant games such as Gun Valkyre (the most fun game I played at E3, a must own for any Metroid fan), Oddworld, and Halo suck before you ever play them, that is either ignorance or arrogance. Funny, all the games that I plan on buying are exclusive titles.